triple or quadruple continuous loop?

Mo-Pac Nov 5, 2019

  1. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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  2. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I agree. I've built 3 of my homes and used OSB extensively on the last two, basically because of cost. You say that money isn't an issue so stay with the plywood.

    I'd be concerned with the strength and stability of the folding table for a layout of that size. Is there a chance that it might sag? Why not frame more conventionally with 1 x 4's or the equivalent over there and make...

    [​IMG]
    http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP Canyon Division/page-2.html

    ... legs that bolt on and could be removed easily. That would make the wiring easier also. I'd worry also about the carriage bolts being buried under the foam. They will lock into the wood to some degree but I think you might find that if you take the nuts off to remove the layout from the folding table they might loosen enough to raise up and then turn when you go to re-tighten them later.

    Just my onions, bet you are excited to be able to begin construction,

    Sumner
     
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  3. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, I plan to frame the corners with 1x4's like you have pictured. Thing is I don't have all of the fancy woodworking tools. I am trying to keep it simple. Making legs with tapers and the such will be out of my league. The only nuts I plan to use is wing nuts for easy removal. I was thinking about PVC board too because of the lack of possible warpage. Reason I mentioned OSB was the size 4x9. Nothing more. Here in France their large plywood is quite bigger and made better than pine.
     
  4. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I cut the ones shown with the taper with a circular saw but could of cut the tapers with a hand saw in a few minutes more. Could use a hand saw for all of it but a power saw for the long cuts on plywood is sure nice.

    If I only had one power saw that I could buy to use it would probably be a decent jig saw. Harder to cut straight lines but I do it often enough and hit the line with a sanding block. The plus is that it is also good for any curved cuts you need to make. I use course metal blades in mine for cutting wood and they last forever.

    You really don't need much in the way of tools to do the bench work, more just make it a little easier ;),

    Sumner
     
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  5. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Agreed! I built my last layout benchwork with nothing but a cheap Black & Decker sabre saw. It was exhausting, but it worked out well. I've since had a small table saw for many years now. I built and successfully tested a leg tapering jig in December, though I've not had the time to use it yet.

    20189-12-31 Tapering Jig - for upload.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  6. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    Did a little tweaking on the layout today, I was able to extend the layout enough to not only cut the cost but also extend it a little bit plus add more significant track in the industrial area.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    I was thinking of gluing two 2" foam boards together. Then build up a 1x6 frame around the layout, without putting any plywood or PVC boarding underneath. Doing this will leave about 1 1/2" (actual thickness and with of 1"x 6" is .75" x 5.5")of lumber below the foam board. Plenty of room to attach the crossbeams and brackets throughout the layout. With a couple of different corner brackets, support brackets and leg brackets. This will be very strong, durable and lightweight.

    This should be plenty strong to hold any scale train. By mouthing this flush on the top side I will have an extra 2 inches below to be used for at least two or three( I would mount these later on after I set the track in position, to allow room for the holes from the wiring above) cross brackets, for middle support to help prevent future bowing. The corners I would use the corner leg brackets for the table legs. Before I put these brackets in I should put angle brackets on the inside and maybe the outside the corners for extra support on the table legs and the layout itself. This is the bracket at the bottom corner of the table for the screw in legs.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Waddell-...2755/100390125
    Not only it will help secure the boards but also be great for removable legs.
     
  8. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    So I am thinking I will need two 1"x 6"x 8' s and one 1" x 6" x 10' to cut to two 49.5" boards. Two 2"x2"x8' boards to cut to almost 48". Set of four screw on table legs. The outside and inside corner brackets. Brackets for the three braces. Corner leg brackets as mention earlier in my post. The legs will be the nominal 30-36" in(pending of style I take) length. Plus some wood glue.

    Yes, I am even planing to drill small starter holes for the brackets. Wood glue for the foam and boards and latex adhesive caulk for the track to the foam. Plenty of 12 gauge solid wire for the track in various locations.
     
  9. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    Well, I do have three different designs set up for this layout. Yes, they are very similar in design too. Though the difference is mainly the length and the industrial areas. Plus also I am wanting to know what y'all think about me moving the fuel/sanding and caboose track to the outside? I didn't have to add any extra track except for the two extra switches. Here's one example, keep in mind I will have 1x6's around the edge of this layout. So the track will not be in too much trouble. Plus I might add a small plexiglass or some other kind of riser about 3/4" high on the outside of the 1x6's to help keep the trains from falling off the layout. I could have shorten the 4 foot section but it would not be too cost effective. The two extra tracks on the roundhouse has over 6.5" of tracks plenty of room for any locomotive on my roster.
     

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  10. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    Here are the other designs.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Personally I wouldn't go this route. The plywood, even 1/2", will keep the 1 X 6's frame in a perfect rectangular shape. Imagine making just the frame and then pushing from opposite diagonal corners. It wouldn't take much pushing and it would no longer be a rectangle. Now put 1 X 2's inside of the 1 x 6's and putting the plywood on top of that and screw the plywood into the 1 x 2's. Now push on the frame and it isn't going anywhere.

    The foam with enough crossmembers under it would hold the weight but you can't screw into it so it isn't giving the structure (frame) any rigidity. Another problem I see with having just foam is you can't easily attach anything to the bottom of it. With plywood under the foam you have something to screw into.

    If you aren't planning on cutting into the foam much for landscaping and want to use the frame as a fascia you could go with a 1 x 4 frame. 1 x 2's around the inside of the bottom of the 1 x 4's, 1/2 inch plywood on top of that and then 1 1/2" foam on top of that. A problem I'd see doing this and what you presented is how to attach the legs to the inside of the frame in a structurally sound way. If you put them on the outside of the frame in the corners then the legs could go to the top of the frame.

    Just my thoughts. It is your layout so proceed as you see fit ;),

    Sumner

    P.S. I like having the sanding facility not attached to the turntable a lot. Makes more sense to me vs. having to go on and off the turntable to service a loco.
     
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  12. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    I will have at least three 2x2's underneath bracketed connecting to the two 8 foot 1x6's. There will be no bowing there, plus I will glue the 1x6's to the foam board. I will be using a smaller version of the bracket for the crossbeams below or I will make one. Screen Shot 2020-02-11 at 00.50.13.png Screen Shot 2020-02-11 at 01.17.46.png Screen Shot 2020-02-11 at 01.14.40.png


    What would I need to screw into the bottom? The wire harness's can be screwed to the 1x6's on the side. If needed I will glue the wiring harness to the foam board if used coming from the tracks. The majority of the tracks are to the sides of the layout. Same with the legs, they too are going to be screwed to the bottom of the corners. The foam boards are each 2" thick together they are just as strong as plywood plus it will not warp from humid/dry weather. With the 1x6's I will technically have about 1.5 inches underneath with is plenty of room to mount anything. Using an 1x4 there would be no room for the 2x2 or 1x2 crossbeams underneath either. Mater of fact there will not be any underneath the way you are describing. The 1" or.75" top of the 1x6 will be flush with the top layer of foam board. whenever I plan to cut into the foam for landscaping I will stop at the board for creeks or ditches or such. There will be no part of the foam board higher the the 1x6, unless I add mountains for tunnels. Here are the styles of brackets I would like to use for each corner about three in all. An inside, outside and a bottom corner leg bracket.
     
  13. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I'll have servo brackets under mine for servo turnout throws and also some of the wiring attached there.

    The way I described there would be 1 1/2" under the plywood where the crossmembers are located. Of course I cut the thickness of the one layer of foam to 1 1/2" which would only give you that much depth to work with. I didn't rule out 1 x 6's if you wanted more depth of foam or under the plywood.

    Sounds like you have a plan you are comfortable with :),

    Sumner
     
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  14. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    OK! Now I see why you are suggesting plywood, it's for the servos. This is not needed for I will be using Tomix tracks. With two layers of 2" foam board this should be equal to plywood. Not only it will be lighter and it won't warp. If I had an actual choice of plywood I would like to bring back a nice piece from over here in France! It's about the same width but a little bit longer and made with really good wood and not crap three piece pine. With this I wouldn't need two layers of 2" foam.
    https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/pro...exterieur-ep-30-mm-x-l-250-x-l-122-cm-e154643
     
  15. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    One last design. I like this one better than the others due to the long industrial track. Its 24+inches plenty of room for two industries and plus I will have a normal two extra outside tracks on the turntable instead of extra overcrowded repair shop. With the refuelling and caboose tracks on the outside it makes it look more adaptable.
     

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  16. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    With this design the first parallel track on the industrial siding is about 16.5 inches/42 cm long to the bumper.
    The downward industrial spur is roughly 8.65 inches/22 cm long to the bumper.
    The refuelling track at the first siding on the top right of the yard is 23.3 inches/59 cm long to the bumper.
    The second siding the caboose/ ready track is 20.75 inches/53 cm long to the bumper.
    The Very middle track through the yard will be the mainline through the yard it is 129 cm/50.75 inches between the switches.
    Because I am going to designate the two would be mainlines for the arrival and departure tracks in the yard, they are both 147 cm/57.875 inches retrospectively. This would technically give me a ten track yard. Yes, I wanted a bigger twelve track yard. Using the triple switches would have worked but I would probably would have seen a LOT of derailments. Plus it wouldn't be cost effective either.
    The tracks inside the roundhouses are 9.4 inches/239 mm each they are without bumper tracks. Because there is builtin bumper tracks in the Tomix roundhouse.
    The outside tracks off the turntable are 8.26 inches/210mm before the bumper.

    I will have four triple switches going into the yard. With nine regular switches in the yard not including the two switches that lead to the roundhouse and the refuelling/caboose area. The caboose area will of course have another switch inside.
    For the industrial area there is only two switches one off the main and the other for the spur.

    The westside of the layout there is a 280 mm straight piece on the outside track, that I can swap later on if needed for a future expansion. Thats why I shifted the layout more to this side so it would split the double crossover evenly. Doing this I can easily put a Double crossover in to connect to it a newer layout if desired.

    The next thing I need to do now is wait until I move and then get moved in and then start the layout with the materails as planned. So hopefully I get started by summer time. I have planned all of my bill of materials except for the wiring lengths for the DCC layout. I plan to put a feeder on every yard track and siding for both the industrial and refuelling area. One on each track around the turntable. I would like to try to make the wiring as neat as possible. To keep my cats less interested in the would-be hanging wires.

    The Layout design I am planning to use a divider to separate the yard from the industrial area.The Yard side will be more desolate. Grass and a few trees and the roundhouse, a repair shop and few other structures. On the other side I am thinking if possible to add a half of a small town between the two inward curves. The spur might be a feed store, with the rest of the town building lined up along a street which would be on the southern edge of the layout. The other track will be a small factory or something. The inside I am wanting to do a forest type layout. I am not planning on doing tunnels to separate the two parts. it will more likely be sloping hills or a cut from the inside track inwards along the divider. So where a future expansion can be possible if needed. Here's the newer design for the layout. Keep in mind that I will have a 1 inch(.75) board bordering around the outside of the layout. Plus a smaller guard wall maybe plexiglass about 3/4 inch high mainly in the areas of the northern part of the yard and the southern curve in the lower right corner.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 3:56 AM
  17. Mo-Pac

    Mo-Pac TrainBoard Member

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    If I decide to come from the other side I will have a 46 cm industrial track and a 18.5 cm spur track. Plus it appears that I will have more room for a town and businesses for the industrial area. I am pulling my hairs out on this one !!!!!! [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     

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