Does anyone have any information on a kit or scratchbuilding a barge for hauling train cars? My new layout is a double deck and cars will move between decks by a movable barge. I'm thinking about making the barge two tracks wide and about 24" long (so a 5 unit intermodal cet can fit). Any ideas or direction would be appreciated. Also, any ideas on what to use to model water on top of foam? I need something that won't eat it. Scot
Forget about Walthers, it would be nothing more then a piece of plastic for $40 big ones. Sylvan Scale Models not only makes a barge but I think 2 tugboats to go along. Check out http://www.isp.on.ca/Sylvan/product.htm Mike
Sounds like a neat project. I'm curious as to how the barge will travel between upper and lower decks. You did say movable barge. Yes? Russ
As I envision it, the car float/barge is merely a scenic element on the layout to create a valid (believable) reason for car(s) entering/leaving the layout to/from a given location. As far as moving the car float/barge to/from different location(s), it can be done in several ways: hand-carrying it, rigging up an elevator system (assumes that one location is directly over or under the other, allowing a straight and vertical lift or descent); etc. etc. Another twist on this was a switching layout with the car float/barge actually floating in real water. The switching problem involved moving cars on and off the car float/barge without tipping it over and sending the car(s) into the water -- most of this was pretty simple -- in order to remain steady, the load must be balanced symmetrically about the center line....move the center of gravity too far off center and....... Ker-SPLASH eNjoy Don B [ 08 July 2001: Message edited by: dbn160 ]
Hate to let you all down. By movable, I mean by hand. The barge will be loaded at one level and then moved to the other level by hand. I started talking about this new layout in the layout design forum (see change of plans). Lower deck is set up for continuous run and has an interchange with another railroad (plus one barge dock). The top deck is an industrial switching area. Cars are swtiched, loaded onto the barge, moved to the lover level, taken to the interchange, and vise versa. I'd show ya'll the track plan, but I don't have a website to post it to, so I can't do that myself. Thank you all for the input. Scot
I've had a very similar idea for sometime. I envisioned a multiple shelf switching layout, where each shelf would transfer cars by way of car float. This really wouldn't be too far fetched in terms of operating, because there use to be a lot of railroads in the NY are that worked like that... Transferring cars from point to point along the shore and across the river. In fact, the Cross Harbor Ry. still does it. I bought the Sylvan kit, but I haven't put it together yet. It actually seemed a little short to me when I took it out, but maybe that's me. There's a good site all about car floats here: http://bjr.acf.nyu.edu/railInfo/car-floats/car-floats.html Dave D. Los Angeles, CA -Rail Radio Online - Home of the "TrainTenna" Rail Radio Monitoring Antenna- http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline ---------------------------------------------------------- -The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Photo Archive & E-Mail List- http://eje.railfan.net ---------------------------------------------------------- -The Ashley, Drew & Northern Railfan Page- http://eje.railfan.net/adn ---------------------------------------------------------- -Southern California Trains- http://eje.railfan.net/socal ----------------------------------------------------------
Trying to handle a load of cars sitting on a barge that you are holding by hand, is going to be very difficult. Try placing two marbles on a plate and walk across the floor. If you make it and the marbles are still together, you might be steady enough to lift them up to the sheft without dumping them off on the floor. You can mount your barge so that when you turn a crank, or do it electrically, a long screw raises the float to the upper shelf, then lower it to the continuous run shelf. It can be done with bicycle type chains, or gear belts, even hydraulics. You can wind cables onto winches. It is no problem to do.
Watash, A lift system won't work. The barge docks are on seperate ends of the two decks. My plan is to have a fold up piece on each end of the float, so that cars can't roll off. Any possibility you could help me post the track plan? I have it scanned in and can email it, I just don't have a web site to post it here from. Scot
Scot, If you have a one ended car float, one way on same way off, you could put a bumper with a working coupler on the opposite end. Then whether you have one or eight cars on the float they’ll be held with the coupler. Never seen a car float in my life, so it’s just a thought. Bill Webb
Bill, Good thought. The float was going to have cars rolling off both ends, but there is no reason I couldn't just tunr the float around to make it a one end deal. I'll keep you idea in mind. Thanks! And welcome to rainboard! Scot
Actually I think I read about some one using a system like that to store cars off-line. He ran car on to a barge, one of several that he built, and stored them some where off the layout. Then replace the cars with others previously stored away. Kind a like a waterway inter-change track.
Ed Vondrak had an article in a mag about 18 months ago called "A Bookcase full of Shortlines" using a carfloat to transfer between them - If anybody is interseted, I'll check the mag name and month/year of publication- email me if you want the info
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by my UP: Watash, A lift system won't work. The barge docks are on seperate ends of the two decks. My plan is to have a fold up piece on each end of the float, so that cars can't roll off. Any possibility you could help me post the track plan? I have it scanned in and can email it, I just don't have a web site to post it here from. Scot<hr></blockquote> Guys, guys, guys! It's simple!!! A canal from one end of the layout to the other, and a series of locks up to the upper level! There are a number of fountain pumps that could be implemented, and a DC RC system for the barge. For realism, enough area to turn the barge as needed to load to the dock would be good. I suppose you could simulate it some way, with a rail mounted barge, simulated waterway, and use a mechanical means in the locks rather than water to raise it from lower to upper level. Basically, the barge would propel on the 'bottom of the waterway' and from one lock to another, using a railway there to guide and align it from port to port. Paul "where there's a will, there's a relative!" --Aesop
Scot, I'm sorry, I just now saw your request, you should have emailed me! Sure, send me your scan, I'll post it for you. Try to get it to around 50KB and it will post fine if it is a .jpg file. Useing real water was tried on a Lionel layout a number of years ago, and an HO one that I know about. Neither was successful for several reasons. After a short time, alga began to grow, so bleach was added to keep the water clean. The smell became over-whelming when enough was added. A re-circulating filter system was added to clean dust, lint, dead bugs, etc from the water. A float valve was added to maintain the water level. Things rocked along until one night during the winter, a power failure allowed the water to freeze which burst the tank seams, and flooded the room. One guest ran an engine onto the barge tipping it over dropping the engine into the tank. All the equipment began to rust after a few weeks. It was finally abandoned on both layouts. I have thought of using glyserin though. Paul's idea of simulating canal locks with the barges running on out of sight tracks, would work, and also provide operation for another guest. He would have to operate the lifting mechanism at each lock, and drive the barges onto or off of each lock. The end-of-track coupler idea could work, and could be mounted on a couple of pegs to be removable for "both end" operation too. It could be fun. Scot, if you can not alter your upper or lower barge tracks to have them both on the same end, then another method, could be a monorail hung from the ceiling. With the barge supported, it would not be as likely to drop, tip over, or maybe stumble and lose all the cars. You could mount a winch to raise the barge.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by watash: Paul's idea of simulating canal locks with the barges running on out of sight tracks, would work, and also provide operation for another guest. He would have to operate the lifting mechanism at each lock, and drive the barges onto or off of each lock. The end-of-track coupler idea could work, and could be mounted on a couple of pegs to be removable for "both end" operation too. It could be fun. Scot, if you can not alter your upper or lower barge tracks to have them both on the same end, then another method, could be a monorail hung from the ceiling. With the barge supported, it would not be as likely to drop, tip over, or maybe stumble and lose all the cars. You could mount a winch to raise the barge.<hr></blockquote> Thanx, Watash! While tongue in cheek, A wye at both ends, allowing a 'backup of the barge' and sailing to the loop at the other end, and in reverse to come back-would simulate realistic sail off operation. Whether simulated 'behind the scene', or out of sight for the most part, but within view for the experience, several steps for x-inches rise would have a visual effect behind the layout, but within view. It could be easily accomodated with some software and DCC, even without another operator. (I've been researching some software for the Lenz LI100 computer interface) It is definately feasable, in N scale, one could probably get away with HO track for the barge. Seeing the 'departure', and even a simple screw elevator described in some Model mags would be feasible to show it's arrival at the upper level, some time later. The locks would be a unique visual addition. Being in the Great Lakes, we had RR barges in Detroit, as well as the Welland Canal, and the Sault Sainte Marie locks. Even to show one lock, at say the lower end, rising...then continue at a steeper grade to the upper lake level, would appear like a lock rise past the backdrop at top, if done right. This would only require a good G motor at worst, and and the appropriate DCC decoder for it, with a minimum of mechanism. Camming may be a viable option, vs. a lift, to simulate the lift of the lock at the lower level, before the barge noticeabley 'tilted' on the grade, a tilting piece of track would lift to make it appear to raise an inch or so, before disappearing out of sight. Much more feasable, and easier to align, with a disc bored off center, and a screw for a stop switch trigger at the outer edge. "make dreams of reality, reality-by finding the solution" How far do you wish to take the project? "Necessity is the mother of invention" --Aaesop Paul [ 21 July 2001: Message edited by: Paul Rahman ]</p> [ 21 July 2001: Message edited by: Paul Rahman ]</p>
Yeah Paul, its like my wife always says, sometimes, "Whatever floats your boat!" There's a lot of ways to skin a cat! (Poor old Cat!)
I like the waterless canal with lock idea!! I'd love to drop by and play the role of bargemaster but I live too far away Not only would it be fun to play with, it would be an interesting challenge to build! Just my thing!
One guy made a "barge" (more like a flat 1x8 board) he had mounted on an Erector set wheels that ran on Lionel rails. He had to spread the wheels out to the edge, so the board would not tip over when he ran a string of cars onto one side. (Some one will eventually do this.) He made his to run around the back side and up to the front of the layout, but all on the same level. It worked well. He had tried carrying the board, but one day he caught his sleeve on the corner of the layout, and dropped the whole thing, board and all on the floor. Then he tried making a table with large casters, and roll it around to the other end, until one of the wheels tried to roll over a screw driver he had left under the layout, and it tipped the table enough to roll the cars over sideways where some again fell to the floor. Then he made the tracked barge, but put pegs between the rails to keep the cars from rolling when the barge started up. I think I would like the tracks with several locks along the back side where the barge could go behind a building or mountain and slowly appear up at the other level like rising up out of a lock there. People might not even notice it there. All you would need is a spring loaded switch on the bottom and top to stop the barge upon arrival at either "dock", the rest could all be automatic, and wouldn't even need a computer, or the expense of DCC either. Remember KISS!
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by watash: upon arrival at either "dock", the rest could all be automatic, and wouldn't even need a computer, or the expense of DCC either. Remember KISS! <hr></blockquote> True. I was thinking two wood circles, with a side rod-and drilled excentric to center, to do a straight vertical lift. A half turn would supply full upward motion, rather than using one for an 'angled lift'. Simple microswitches could be used for detectors, and start/stop mechanisms, rather than fancy detector cirquits. Either way, the only lift needed for a 'lock' effect would be an inch or so. Indexing would be simple, with just frame guides to align the lift movement and keep the track aligned, especially if larger guage is used for the barge. It would be a simple lift/drop on top of the 'cams'. One rail could probably be routed through a contact on the cam, providing start stop for track power, and even powering the mechanism to cycle when the barge positions on the lock. Cars would more than likely be strings, so a simple stop rod could be brought up between one set of trucks on each rail on the barge to hold the cars from moving. That could even be indexed by a pin at the dock, spring loaded to default to the up position when the barge is moved. No having to fuss with it, just load them on, and fire up the barge power. Hmmmm...this is getting interesting! Feasable too! Paul [ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: Paul Rahman ]</p>
