I picked up a Tortoise. I have never seen nor held one nor seen one work. I see the following: a. I need a DPDT switch for each one. b. It needs to be wired to the switch. There are several soldering points that need to be taken care of- Tortoise to switch, six wires on the switch, wires to a DC supply. c. Under the table mounting and probable addition of the "extender" mechanism if the switch needs to sit in an inconvenient spot. d. Extra .025" spring wire if there is more than 1" between the turnout and the Tortoise. I am running DC. I understand the reason for all of the wiring if I am going to have a central control station for all turnouts, power supplies, AC feeds, etc. BUT If I am not going to have a master control station, switching for particular areas of the layout will be at that particular section, which means that I need to walk there, throw the Tortoise and run the train through the area. Bluepoint- same as the above except no masses of wire and a total cost of material and labor about 1/3 of Tortoise. Am I missing something?
No, you aren't missing something. They are two different means of operating a turnout. The Bluepoint control is non-electric. It's best use is for local turnout control. IIRC, it has electrical contacts for power routing or signaling. The Tortoise IS electrically controlled and has contacts for power routing or signaliing. It can be controlled from a remote central control panel or locally. It can also be controlled through a DCC throttle if equipped with a stationary decoder. If you are planning on controlling your turnouts locally and don't have any plans on using DCC, the Bluepoint is an excellent choice. The Bluepoint won't work for those who wish to operate their turnouts remotely or with DCC. As I said, they are two different animals, depending on which zoo your visiting! LOL Darrell, quiet...for now
I have a large DCC layout and am using Bluepoints nearly entirely. I am only going to use tortoise machines on the mainline sidings for CTC control. I LOVE BLUEPOINTS! They are easy to install and seem "forgiving" in terms of alignment for the turnout's throw. I am using them with Atlas code 55. I have not yet wired the frog, but so far, I do not need to. All locomotives are operating just fine through the turnouts without wiring! Although, I will go back later and wire them properly.
Yes, you forgot the part about going to the RC/Airplane store and buying the linkages, and then a trip to Home Depot to get the knobs. I looked a while back. Linkages ain't cheap! mg:
I really doubt that installing the linkages on the Blue Point is significantly less work than wiring the DPDT to the Tortoise. (OTOH, running your AC bus wires to power the Tortoises is more work, though not difficult work). And personally, I don't think that I would find a mass of linkages more desirable than a mass of wires. I gather that the Blue Point has a connection for the frog, but does it also have the connection for lights/signal system? I've worked with Tortoises, not with Blue Point. At least from a feature standpoint, I think that if all you will ever desire is simple turnout control, the Blue Points should be adequate. They are cheaper, too. The Tortoises are necessary (I think) if you dream of having things like indicator lights, signals, and of course DCC control.
Ben- I am at work now, but I could swear that the Tortoise instructions said DC only and that it would not run on AC for track switching.
The plastic thingies that hold everything together. Gas to go back and forth to the shop until you figure out which plastic thingies you actually need. :teeth:
There is a diagram for AC, although you need a couple of diodes to rectify the power: http://www.fiferhobby.com/html/misc__page__tortoise__circuitr.html TB
Tony- I am doing this monkey see monkey do. Diodes and rectifiers are two things that I hope Dr. Zarkov uses while helping Dale and Flash Gordon. I will have to stick with the DC.
Seeing as Marc is Rrrr's new best friend I'm not saying nothing. Nope, not a word from the "Red Clawed One"
Whoops, yes, you're correct, although as fifer points out one can use rectified AC. The way we do it at the club is we run AC through push buttons and diodes. The main reason for doing this is that one push button can throw multiple turnouts, e.g. throw all turnouts necessary to route traffic in a yard ladder. The same push button can send opposite current to different turnouts simply by orienting the diodes opposite. I should have mentioned this as another major advantage of the Tortoises.
The Blue Point utilises a DPDT switch for the same switch ability as a Tortoise. One pole can be used for the frog, the other pole for auxilliary (signalling, detection, etc.) use. There's no edge connector option for the Blue Point needed as it appear to be a standard miniature toggle switch within. I'm considering these for anything not on the mainline but know squat about RC linkages. Fortunately I have two hobby store that have primarily RC within walking distance so will see what is available locally. galesburghead2 - do you have any photos of your Blue Point installations you would like to share? Like Mark, I could take the 'monkey see, monkey do' approach.
The Tortoise can have an optional 8-way (or 10-way) edge connector placed on the circuit board so you don't need to have permanent wire connection to the Tortoise itself (helps with maintenance), like this - The Blue Point has solder tabs for wiring rather than the Tortoise's circuit board - Here's the difference between both - You can just see the switch body in the Blue Point behind the actuator. If it is a toggle switch in there, then that will provide the positive holding of turnout switches in normal and reverse like the over centre spring does for Peco points for example.
I have been intrigued by the Blue Point controllers, but dismissed them based on their high price in relation to the Tortoise or other options. (manual or powered) I do see value though, especially for high volume of turnouts, like in a club or a large layout. And I am a big fan of manual control as long as the electrical considerations are being addressed. Most of my turnouts will be manual using the "slide switch" method promoted by my friend Mike "The Frugal Faux-Ferroequinologist"(tm) Drzycimski. But, I am willing to hear testimony, certainly. I have one question which I think I know the answer to, but... Can the turnout be thrown from above? So, could I some type of homemade throw (or just something like the Peco "fingernail" method) and the Bluepoint for electrical? I suspect no, but I'm curious.
I made a decision five years ago to design my layout with the goal that all switches could be thrown with Caboose Hobbies groundthrows. I managed that for all but a few of the 80+ switches. Operators walk with the train, and throw their own switches. Yes, the throws are very oversized, perhaps HO scale. Thrown, they are lieing horizontally, so that's not a big deal for me. How often do they actually stand upright? Never, I hope. The primary reason I did this was that I decided not to spend huge amounts of time installing switch machines and then wiring them. I'd done that on the previous layout, and it probably delayed operations for two years. It's not that they are hard to wire up; it's that there are (were) so many of them! Even the few switches that I thought needed remotes didn't. A little piano wire extension to a remoted ground throw--just fine. I've mentioned before that I've seen far fewer derailments due to improperly thrown switches since I went manual. It's the responsibility of the train crew to make sure each switch is properly aligned, and there's nothing like a close eyeball to confirm that it is. When I built this layout, I was tired of wiring, and troubleshooting the wiring. If I went totally auto, I needed 85 Tortoises just to start, and the Atlas machines weren't even announced. At the time, Tortoises were back ordered everywhere--I found one at a LHS to experiment with. Tortoises, or Blue Point for that matter, are not good on a multi-deck layout--they hang down too far! So I went almost totally manual. And I couldn't be happier.
Thanks for the reply Gats. It all makes sense now that I've seen a picture of the contacts on the Blue Point.
Gary- Is the optional connector a "standard" piece that can be obtained elsewhere or is it pecular to Tortoise?
