Hi all, I'm thinking about getting started back up in the hobby. I've just purchased a house with an extra finished room in the basement! I would like to hear discussion about considerations to make upon re-entering (with VERY little previous experience) the hobby. I'm concerned about the following points and any other you may have to offer: Engine manufacturer. I'm wanting to model mainly in Late steam and possible early Diesel (Though I don't know much about either). I would like to know who makes a good, reliable, low speed performance steam engine line. Currently I have two deisel/electric engines. One is a bachman that came with the $20 starter kit some 15 years ago (TOY "quality") and the other is a KATO that I bought closeout while working at a hobby shop during my high school years (about 10 years ago). After having the KATO unit, I'll never settle for a junky engine again. The smooth, slow speed capability of the KATO has me hooked. Control DCC? I'll be starting with a simple loop layout to span say...two or three walls of a small room. I may decide to get more complicated someday, but not soon. Two trains at the same time is the most I can see needing anytime soon. Is DCC necessary? I think probably no, and maybe prices will be lower if/when I get to that point...? I currently only have the simplistic transformer that came in afore mentioned bachman kit. What is a good choice for control? Track. I'm not sure where to even start. Money will definitely be a factor for me. I'm more concerned about good running than scale looks (though something that looks nice is always better ). Where to begin? These and any other topics, such as rolling stock quality, buildings/scenery, and wiring requirements would be appreciated. thanks (I know it's more than a mouthful!) Clem
Another dilema of mine (I'm replying rather than confuse the already boggling first post ): I started a 4'x6' layout back in my highschool years. Basically I laid a couple of loops of track (it was based on the "Octopus and Monopoly" or something similar in the Nine N scale track plans book) and some wiring to run trains on with thoughts of completing it gradually, I really don't want a cramped and confined layout of this sort. I've been thinking about persuing this one as a starter project but I keep wanting to build a more spread out layout that would be built into the room in question. In my mind there would be a foot at most of benchwork on two or three walls of a room. I think it would be best to start with what I'd be interested in completing. This would mean abandoning the 4'x6' layout that's standing agains the wall of my parents basement. I've got way too many projects and this one would not take front burner often, but might be one that my daughter could be involved with as she grows (she really likes thomas the tank )... any thoughts? I know it's vague and ambiguous...I think too much Thanks Clem
Clem, Welcome back! I'm returning too (after 17 years). I hope to start a layout soon in DCC, but am starting smaller. I plan to customize one of the 4x8 layouts in the Atlas "Nine N-Scale Railroads" book. When it's finished, and depending upon what kind of additional room my wife will allow , I will expand off of it. I plan to use as much Atlas flextrack as possible, because I have so much of it left over from my earlier years. I will also use Atlas turnouts in order to stay consistent with the book plan. They make very good track overall. I too will need new loco's, but I plan to go all diesel (probably circa 1950's to 60's). Kato is in the top tier with Atlas, but I'm really checking out Lifelike. My budget is tight, and LL has some decent engines at good prices (and are not that hard to convert to DCC). I do have an old Bachmann Northern (4-8-4) that still works, but I'm not particularly fond of it. In fact, I plan to stay away from Bachmann althogether. They are the dreaded "B" word! Overall, I'd suggest you start small and work up. It's more manageable that way and you will have a much better chance of finishing what you start. I'll leave it to the more experinced modelers to give you more specific advice - So I'll be watching too!
Hi Clem, I have a couple of thoughts for you. One is to build your layout in sections, starting with a basic dogbone layout in 1'x4'sections, you can easily move an end blob when the time comes to add a new piece (or three) . At the same time, you can allow trains to run which for me makes a lot of difference in my motivation. For locos, many are coming with the decoder built in, and most new ones are a "drop in" situation. Not sure how the new steam will fare as I model current rolling stock. Another thought is to build as broad a radius curve as you can. (I have torn up 2 previous layouts due to this) Welcome back to the hobby. Bruce, where in Mass are you? I am in the Milford MA area. Kirk
Clem, First, welcome back to the hobby! I can't speak for N scale steam, but N scale diesels are awesome! Besides Kato, I'd recommend Atlas and LifeLike- they run much. much better than their predecessors in the bad old days. As far as layout plans, may I recommendLayout Depot as a place to visit for ideas. There, you'll find layouts in every scale and size (you don't have to register, and even if you did, it's free- my favorite price ) As far as track goes, go with ol' faithful- Atlas. I would recommend going with Peco turnouts, or if you stay 100% Atlas, go with the newer turnouts. At any rate, Atlas track is fairly inexpensive (I use it myself, with the Pecos installed). Besides, with a little paint on the rails, and some ballast, you'll have good-looking track. Hope this helps. If I knew the size of your room I could help you some with a design, but I have to agree with another poster that a folded dogbone is the way to go. For further help, cehck out some of Kalmbach Publishing's trackplan books (Carstens has a couple of good ones as well). Feel free to holler at us (here and in the Layout Design forums) if you need any help. Once again, welcome back!
Welcome to the TrainBoard family Clem! Try to make your track as smooth and level as you can. The better your track, the better you will enjoy your layout. Your daughter will probably enjoy watching the trains run, see? May I suggest you make a 4 foot "blob" at each end of whatever track plan you use, so you can lay an 18" radius to turn the trains around and have continuous operation. Go ahead and make the 12 to 24" wide benchwork along the three walls. You can experiment with the smaller radius curves later, as well as switches. If you remember, it is pretty dull getting started, but as soon as something can RUN, it starts getting interesting! Everything else will fall in place if your interest remains. Run the engines you have now, then spend money for new ones later.
Welcome aboard, Clem, both the Trainboard and back into the hobby. You pose understandable questions from a 'newbie' standpoint so don't be concerned about ambiguity and vaguness - we all started there at some point in the dim dark past. There is so much that can be covered from your initial questions alone. Please make use of the search function this site has (located at the top of the page on the righthand side) to scan past threads and posts. A lot of the answers you seek are there and anything you more detail on please feel free to post your questions. But, just a quick overview of you your questions... Steam - not muuch around that is worth getting hold of. Bachmann has a new design Consolidation due for release that is supposed to be very good, MDC has one on the burned, and Kato has the light Mikado (which is getting hard to get hold of but is to be re-released soon). Other here have far more input into steam. Diesel - Atlas, Kato and, to a lesser degree, Life-Like have a good range of well-running transition/first generation locos to choose from - GP7/9 (Atlas), SD7/9 (Atlas, L-L), RS-1,3,11, RSD4/5, RSD12 (Atlas), RS-2 (Kato), F-M Trainmaster (Atlas) plus more. DCC - the DCC forum would be the starting point for this question. We have many knowledgable members there. Layout - the Layout Design Discussion forum is the place to be! You can run your ideas past those who have been where you are now. Gary.
I have also seen Flieschmann Steam in N Scale, but as an exclusively HO scaler(my dad is pushing for G) I cannot tell how well they run. Most will be a european prototype.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by nodima: Bruce, where in Mass are you? I am in the Milford MA area. Kirk<hr></blockquote> I'm in the Lowell area.
Don't rule out DCC. Remember you will be up and running trains quicker, and easier with DCC. You thought the hobby was fun years ago, wait till you try DCC!! Just the advantage in reduced wiring (like hardly any) is worth it. But running the trains...Wow! It's so great! DCC brought me back to the hobby, and I can't encourage you enough to try it. Christmas is coming up, and I think a New Digitrax Empire Builder II is only $240 at John Eberle's DCC. In my opinion, the place to start is DCC, not later.
John Eberle's DCC doesn't have a website, but his phone number is 877-531-5275. He is very knowledgeable, and patient, especially when talking to newbies. He helped me get started, and I've been flyin' with DCC ever since. His Model Railroader ad is on page 41 of the December issue. I can't recommended him highly enough.
Well, most of these guys have hit the nail on the head. Kato and Atlas are considered the best among N scale. Newer releases from LL and Bachman have improved over their older stuff, but are still not quite to the level of the leaders. Good luck in the steam era. N scale steam has basically been crap, with one or two exceptions. Kato's 2-8-2 (which is being re-released) is a good model, and Bachman is re-releasing its 2-8-0, don't know how good it will be. As mentioned, there are a lot of early diesels available. DCC is definitely the direction the hobby is moving. Entry level systems can be purchased for slightly less than $150 dollars. It is also easier, since you are basically starting new, to get a decoder for each new locomotive you buy, rather than trying to retrofit all your locos at a later date. One thing you can do is wire for DCC, but then just hook up the regular controller until you have the funds to get a system. Good choice for this is a Tech II from MRC, any of their models. For track, wider is definitely better. You can get away with some smaller radii since you should have smaller rolling stock (40-50 foot, smaller diesels, occasional 60-70 foot pax car.) rather than those of us modeling the modern era (89' flats & autoracks, large 6 axle diesels). Atlas makes decent N scale track for the price. Best is Micro-Engineering, but probably out of your price range (it's out of mine!). I'm going to use the new Atlas code 55 track, looks a little more realistic, but it's still Atlas. Here are some websites that will help with electrical info: DCC retailers: www.tonystrains.com www.loystoys.com www.wiringfordcc.com - domain name says it all. Hey Bruce, I'm in the Haverhill area. Ever have any questions on the UP, let me know. It's my road too.
I snuck in from the layout design forum as your post looked interesting. First, you don't say how big your room is... and if you do reply to this, where is the door, is there a closet that can be liberated, where is the window(s) and will it inhibit anything? Are there any other obstacles in the room (furnace, water heater, etc... and posts)? Are there political boundaries... for example, did your spouse say: "Not over there you don't..!" DCC Secondly you are entering the hobby in a transitional moment, as most will slowly change to DCC. I once had an older boss who tried to convince me an electric IBM typewriter was all we really needed to run an Army Cadet Corp (I was arguing for a computer). Well as dark ages as that arguement appears to you, not having DCC will eventually be like that... so plan on DCC and don't settle for anything less, even as an interim solution. Somehow, temporary solutions become permanent. So here are some corollaries in starting with DCC: 1) Get your Kato engine decoded. Probably have to pay some one to install it, but do it now, while you are making other decisions. Only buy engines with decoder already installed. My son, Dane and I, have around 10 engines that need decoders. In Canada, it costs more so by putting it off, you create a larger problem for yourself. 2) Start becoming familiar with DCC. One of the latetest issues of Model Railroader (November) has a DCC round up article, reread it at least 4 times in the next 6 months, and learn about the different systems. Layout Design: Don't assume anything yet, but draw a plan of what you would like now, make it simple. Draw up a list of "Givens" - what you must have on your layout - and "Druthers" - what you would like on your layout, if you have the room. Try not to make too many decisions now, but instead just go for the feel of it. You have a room which is larger than most N scalers have (even if it is a study sized one like mine). N scaler's tend to build smaller layouts, so yours will be a respectable size. I don't know why you want one foot wide benchwork, but I wouldn't settle for that unless there was a swimming pool in the middle (the humidity from the pool is bad for the layout....lol). Accept the fact that you will change your mind significantly in the next year and a half as you become more sophisticated. Corollary: Spend time studying and critiqueing plans in MR and other magazines, as well as the net. Remember you will probably create minimally 6-8 serious plans before you settle down on one or the other. Clubs If you can, join an Ntrack club. You will build a module that can be part of your layout, plus learn much needed skills and meet people who will become life long friends, helping you in the hobby. Important rules: Remember this vital fact: Money spent here, isn't being spent there! This is called "lost Opportunities" in economics. In other words, if you buy 25 engines, you probably aren't going to have a layout as your money will be spent on engines, and not on your layout. Part of the hobby is about compromise. You probably won't have space to do everything, so be prepared to be flexible. Items you might have to scale back on: maximum radius, maximum grade, benchwork height (depending on whether you consider a double decker), either too much track (spagehtti track) or not enough track (then you should be a narrow gauger...lol). Also, not enough room for scenery becomes a common problem. Backdrop Most people skimp on the backdrop, don't do this. I have seen incredible layouts with horrible backdrops. Make the backdrop a priority item, and put it in, right after you do the bench work (most people plan to do this and don't ... then regret it latter). Remember the backdrop sets the theme, and expands the layout; it shouldn't look childish, spartan, or too modern artish. And seriously consider photo backdrops. Dont buy brass track!!!!!!!! Engines And lastly, you will find N scale not as strong as H) in the steam category. So why not run an excursion steam train (like BC Rail has done in the past with the Royal Hudson 2860 Steam engine) but plan on deisels. Most N scaler's are more contemporary than HO'rs as the selection is better or more realistic in N scale, than steam in N scale. More layout (lol) When layout planning first draw your benchwork, without track. Next, fix your visual spots. How will the eye be drawn into your layout? Where are the areas you want to highlight to draw the eye and imagination of the viewer in. A corallary of this: what is the viewer going to see first when entering your layout room? Try and have set visual areas, then these become your focal modeling areas; and the boundaries transition the scene from one to the next, or one geographic region to the next. So on one wall, you have your rural area, on the next wall your mountain scenery, and on your next wall your urban switching area... to give an example. Then when you have your areas clearly defined, then decide on track. Initial Track Plan When drawing track, just concentrate on the mainline first. Is it dog bone, or double dog bone? Is it stub ended, loop to loop, etc? Then after that decision is made, then focus in on your switching and passing siding areas. Remember with DCC, reversing loops aren't the bad guys of the past, and you can have continuous running with reversing loops. Welcome back to the hobby.
N scale will have a plethora of reasonably priced (not counting Brass) US steam very soon. Announced / new locos: Kato 2-8-2 re-release (January) Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 (December) Con-Cor Daylight (Con-Cor info at www.con-cor.com ) Con-Cor Big Boy Con-Cor 4-8-4 Northern re-run www.bachmanntrains.com www.katousa.com The Kato Japanese steamer imports run great as well. I have a C57 that runs great. The Tomix 2-8-0 runs great from what I hear. The Con-Cor models can be bought/reserved at www.4nscale.com The rest can be bought/reserved at www.blwnscale.com [ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: sd9043mac ]</p>
Originally posted by rsn48: ...First, you don't say how big your room is... and if you do reply to this, where is the door, is there a closet that can be liberated, where is the window(s) and will it inhibit anything? Are there any other obstacles in the room (furnace, water heater, etc... and posts)? Are there political boundaries... for example, did your spouse say: "Not over there you don't..!" It's a smallish room. I'd estimate 10'x12' with an interior closet (as in it invades the floor space), and a ground well type window at the top of the wall...cut into the foundation. There are no other obstacles and no "political boundaries" as my wife says "the basement is yours...do whatever you want down there" (though she says I cant remove said room to make more room for my big toys...the cars!). The closet could be an opportunity. I'm thinking about making it a "mountain" for a tunnel of "moffit" proportions. DCC Secondly you are entering the hobby in a transitional moment, as most will slowly change to DCC. I once had an older boss who tried to convince me an electric IBM typewriter was all we really needed to run an Army Cadet Corp (I was arguing for a computer). Well as dark ages as that arguement appears to you, not having DCC will eventually be like that... so plan on DCC and don't settle for anything less, even as an interim solution. Somehow, temporary solutions become permanent. Good points! Something to consider. So here are some corollaries in starting with DCC: 1) Get your Kato engine decoded. Probably have to pay some one to install it, but do it now, while you are making other decisions. Only buy engines with decoder already installed. My son, Dane and I, have around 10 engines that need decoders. In Canada, it costs more so by putting it off, you create a larger problem for yourself... I won't be able to bring myself to have someone else do it. I just can't (even though it would save time and possibly money ). Layout Design: ...N scaler's tend to build smaller layouts, so yours will be a respectable size. I don't know why you want one foot wide benchwork, but I wouldn't settle for that unless there was a swimming pool in the middle (the humidity from the pool is bad for the layout....lol)... I would like to not have a room dedicated solely to model railroad. I have too many hobbies and this is just one of them. I don't like the look of a bunch of track crammed into one place as it looks so unrealistic. I suppose I could live with having two destinations seperated only by a few feet, but I'd rather have the layout run 4 inches wide throughout the entire house! and have the visual effect of longer trips. Strange? maybe... Clubs If you can, join an Ntrack club. You will build a module that can be part of your layout, plus learn much needed skills and meet people who will become life long friends, helping you in the hobby. that would be great, but I just moved to this town where there aren't many resources and I'm a newer father with little time for extra-family excursions Backdrop Most people skimp on the backdrop, don't do this. I have seen incredible layouts with horrible backdrops. Make the backdrop a priority item, and put it in, right after you do the bench work (most people plan to do this and don't ... then regret it latter). Remember the backdrop sets the theme, and expands the layout; it shouldn't look childish, spartan, or too modern artish. And seriously consider photo backdrops. Can this be easily done by one's self? A backdrop is something that I haven't considered as of yet. A photo backdrop sounds quite interesting to me, I'd love more info Dont buy brass track!!!!!!!! Why not? The garden scale folks only use it. Oops. I'm rereading this and it sounds smart-alecky. I'm just wondering why not to use brass an what are alternatives. Engines And lastly, you will find N scale not as strong as H) in the steam category. So why not run an excursion steam train (like BC Rail has done in the past with the Royal Hudson 2860 Steam engine) but plan on deisels... I was beginning to think the same thing. Any thing steam looks not quite as good as Deisel in N. The "excursion" idea is one that I have been leaning toward. I am not familiar with the differences in "early deisel" and "modern deisel". I could use a little help there. Thanks for all the replies! Clem
Hi and welcome to the hobby. The questions you asked are the same ones I asked when I started in the hobby and the same ones I still ask today. So, for what it's worth, here's my two-cents worth. 1. Engines. I run a variety of engines. Although my main love is the ATSF/BNSF, I also like the unusual engines, i.e., the EMD SD60-M demo engine, the MicroTrains (LifeLike!) Pepsi and Hershey engines, and Thomas the Tank Engine! Therefore, I look more for what I want than by manufacturer. However, my choices (when applicable) would be Kato, Atlas, LifeLike, Bachmann Spectrum, and all others. I have a Bachmann 4-8-4 Northern that really runs well. However, it is a replacement for the same engine from the same manufacturer that didn't run at all! I have some older AHM and Atlas steam that seems to do allright, but I am mainly a diesel nut. 2. DCC is a bone of contention in my N-Trak group. Most of the newer engines I buy already have decoders in them or are decoder ready. But I have no real desire to go to DCC at home! 3. Rolling Stock. Once again I buy what I like. Yesterday I bought two of the new Atlas 55000 gallon tankers. The selling point, for me, was the fact that they had MicroTrains couplers already on them. I am definitely a MicroTrains fan. I like their couplers, I like their cars, I just plain like MT. 4. Track. My N-Trak group insists on Peco Code 55 for any modules made for it. This costs about $8.50 for a 32" piece of flex track and up to $35.00 for a turnout. I plan on trying the new Atlas code 55 track when I build my new layout in my basement (my daughter and grandkids finally got a house of their own). That only runs about $2.70 per section. I think I'll stick with the Peco turnouts because they have a positive click when you switch them. They are spring mounted and will stick in position. Expensive but worth it. And, yes, don't buy any copper track! My downstairs layout will run along three walls of a room just like yours. I'll start with a 10' by 12" (or maybe 15") yard area, then a 10' by 32" x 10' by 32" L-shaped area coming off the yards. This will run me close to the closet which is intruding on my room. This layout will replace the 40' by 32" (48" on the ends) layout I have upstairs in the outside room (cold in winter, hot in summer). As one of the other replies states, I think the backboard is going to be an important feature. What this all means, however, that instead of building out, I plan on building up in layers. Anyway, enough for now. Feel free to e-mail me with any questions you think I can answer for you. Bob nmtexman@yahoo.com
I sure hope you asked for all this input! N-Scale Steam: Only one real winner in this group, the KATO 2-8-2 Mikado. The engines run like a watch (I now have 7 of them). If you can find a early CON-COR 4-6-4 Hudson at a good price, buy it. They were made for CON-COR by KATO and they may be 15-20 years old, but they will run almost as good as the Mikes (I have 4 of these). The MINITRIX 4-6-2 Pacifics and 2-10-0 Decapods run pretty good, but aren't near as good as the KATO engines. MINITRIX has not kept up with the times and the engines are not built for todays model railroad operation demands. Most Bachmann steam engines look good and don't run worth a *#@$)%! I am hoping that their new 2-8-0 Consolidation will run as good as people are saying it will. I have two on order right now. I have no experience with the new MDC 2-8-0, so I cannot say yea or nay about it. I sort of got tickled about the statement that N-Scalers tend to build smaller layouts. Not in my area, we build 'em big. In my NTRAK club a 10' x 20' layout is small to average size. I am building a 17' x 30' double deck layout in my basement at the current time and if the BOSS/BANKER (read WIFE) approves I may get a 10'x 15' side room to boot! BRASS TRACK in N-Scale? Never seen it, would not use it anyway. Too hard to keep clean, the stuff tarnishes bad. Don't waste your money on it. Always get the best trackwork that you can, don't skimp on track you will pay for it on down the line when your trains don't run worth a hoot and you have to spend all your time on cleaning, and rebuilding the trackage. One of the best things you could do is join a local N-Scale club. Check around, ask at the local hobby shop. If there is no club maybe start one, you might be surprised at how many N-Scalers are in your area! On other thing is to do things the way you want to, after all it is your railroad.
