Have been thinking of doing a narrow gauge set up but not sure which scale. I have a regular N scale layout and tried doing Nn3 but the locos are small and very frustrating with over heating etc. So any pro's and con's with HOn30(HOn21/2) or On30. Track radius limits on both ? Size is not to much of a question unless On30 needs to much room,thinking of shelve (spelling?)type layout. I have seen some of the Bachman On30 things so I have some idea on size. I like the Critters that On30 Companies offer , HOn30 Critters seem to be less of unless I'am looking in the wrong places? Which is the easist to find track and switches? Also what code is the real rails in these scales? (I know a dumb question) Thanks for your time with these basic question . Rick
Nothing against HOn30 here. I am a long time N scaler. But years have passed, eyesight has declined. And due to health issues, I've some hand troubles. My need was to go larger. So I chose On30. There seems to be a very vibrant community here, and I believe that the Bachmann availability has given it the quick boost we all have noticed. At this point, aftermarket suppliers of conversions and parts do seem to be more plentiful than HOn30. I do not believe you'd see any issues with track radius in On30. Much equipment will operate easily on a radius well under 18". Some folks simply use regular HO track. I have gone with Micro-Engineering On30 Code 83. Boxcab E50
On30 seems to be the cheapest to get into of the narrow gauges. Bachmann makes some very nice models. For some ideas of how small you can make a layout in On30, you might check out Micro/Small Layouts. Some of what is there is cartoonish, but there are still some good ideas there, and a lot of what is there is narrow enough to fit on a shelf layout.
I would say that if you had trouble with Nn3, you will probably have trouble with HOn30 as well. Alot of the locos depend on older unreliable mechanisms. The reliability of On30 stuff is great. Eric
I'm starting with H0n3. I will build a module SILVER CREEK project - TrainBoard.com . There're nice and good running engines from Blackstone available. Turnouts can you get from Cream City Turnouts . I think there're other manufacturers too. My friend has just started with his website hon3fan.de about H0n3. Wolfgang
I suggest looking at all four of your options to start off with: HOn30 HOn3 On30 On3 (the true 2' stuff is a bit lacking in commercial products) As far as nice looking, scale track, there is no difference between HOn3 and HOn30 or On3 and On30. True On30 track is just as scarce and expensive as On3 track. What is your modeling interests? What type of equipment? How much do you care about prototype fidelity? How much do you car about the way your track looks? If you like modern, mainline American Narrow Gauge, HOn3 or On3 is probably the best. If you like industrial type roads and don't mind the track...On30 is quite fine. Many HOn3 cars can be used with HOn30...same is true with On3 and On30. Most (if not all) of B-man's On30 locomotives can be converted to On3 (I've done a 2-6-0, 2-8-0, and a porter)...but On3 locomotives typically can't be converted to On30. Grandt Line offers some really awesome critter compatible items: Grandt rolling stock and locos There FM dump cars are cheaper and nicer detailed than B-man's and PSC's...but require assembly and either modification to the wheelsets or new wheelsets. Their Porters are still possibly the best detailed locomotives in the hobby...diecast, brass, or plastic...but require assembly and you need to order the gears and motor separately (Dave Grandt can provide the gears...I picked up one of the motors last December for $55 from the Motorman). Their NCNG diesel kits ocassionaly pop up on ebay. B-man is, of course, well known for their quality products and for making On30 a mainstream scale/gauge. One of my reasons to switch from HOn3 to On3 was the possibility of using their On30 2-6-0 as a basis for On3 C&S and DSP&P power. Curve radius: depends on what you want to run. 15"-18" is fine for most HOn3 power. Wolfgang did a cool test which he shared on here a couple months back. For HOn30...the motive power is essentially n-scale mechanisms...but I suspect that the rolling stock might have issues with some of the tighter curves. The two old mainstays of HOn30 were the Miniland series which came from Japan...they combined hideously undersized drivers with familiar looking superstructures...due to their pancake motors and design flaws...many of them are out of action now. The other source was Euro imports (Roco and AHM). B-man offers some nice Euro items (H0e)...but you need to check their British or German sites to see them. Most On30 stuff seems to be designed for 18" curves...some locomotives/cars can go far tighter than that (I think I've seen a 2-6-0 on tighter than 12" curves). I kind of doubt that the big MMI power can negotiate anywhere close to that. I use 27" curves on my On3...but I doubt that the common 2-8-2s could handle those. My 27" curves are the absolute minimum for Grandt Line's Steel Underframe C&S/RGS/WP&Y cars. The minimum for these would be a bit higher on an On30 layout due to the wheels needing to clear the SUF...tighter curves would be okay with modifications to the frame. Many people prefer an absolute minimum curve radius of 36" for On3. It isn't really the gauge that determines min radius...just like with real trains...it is actually the size of the equipment...rigid wheelbase and clearance issues (On30 wheels have more room to swing in between cylinders...On3 wheels have more clearance at the centersills). Just because On3 and especially On30 allow for tighter curves doesn't mean it is a good idea to use them...unless it is an industrial layout. Rail size: The Oahu Railway had the heaviest rail of any ng I'm familiar with...around code 112 in O-scale...Code 62 in HO....90# rail. As a note, the ORL wasn't a dinky railroad...it was the only 3' gauge railroad in the US with a double track CTC mainline and regularly ran trains with 5min headway...20 car passenger trains, 2-8-2s, and big 2-8-0s. Code 70 for HOn3 (a bit oversized) and Code 100 for On30/On3 (oversized for most roads) was common. It is really more of a question of what you are comfortable with using. Code 30-40 would be scale for a 19th century HOn3 railroad...Code 55-70 for a 19th century On30/On3 layout. For an industrial line in On30/On3...Code 40-55 would look good. It is usually for reliability that we use oversized rail. Many brass/diecast On3 locomotives will destroy Code 70 rail. Michael
Thanks guys. This going to be a freelance set up so prototype I'm not to worried about,I find if I try to do a prototype I get nothing done because I can't find something or I can't scratch built good enough. I was going to do HOn30 because of the Train Trooper HOn30 brass SR&RL 2-6-2 looks real nice and I'm use to using N scale track. Anybody have one ? But I picked up the On30 magazine at the local shop and found many places that had some amazing looking critter and loco convertions . Hence my questions. Thanks Michael for the rail code comments ,I get it know! I'm open to anyother comments. Thanks again. Rick
If you are interested in Maine 2-foot, also consider Sn2 (uses HOn3 track...wheels) and On2 (which is classic). There is a gentleman in my city who is an Sn2 modeler. He showed me a few of his forneys and a bit rolling stock a few weeks back. Train & Trooper has a number of Sn2 items available. If you are going to completely freelance it, the HOn30 2-6-2 and the various HOn3 kits would probably look fine together. But I do believe that the HOn30 offerings are a bit scarce today. Also, if you want the track to look right, you're probably going to want to change the tie spacing as N-scale ties aren't anywhere close to HO ng. You would probably solder spacers to the railheads of Code 55 N-scale track components, remove the out of scale tie strips, and glue or spike the rail to scale ties...probably 6' long HOn3 ties. Or get the commercially produced HOn30 track. My favorite H0e locomotives are out of production, currently, but here's B-man's current offerings (critters): Liliput HOe Scale Locomotives Prices and Availability H0e=HOn30, 0e=On30 Another approach to getting that Maine 2-6-2 would be in On2...either through one of the brass imports or from bashing the B-man On30 2-8-0. Brass at Train Michael
Would this be the On30 Annual? If so, those are an excellent publication. There are four issues out now. Another one to look at is Light Iron Digest. Narrow gauge & Short Light Gazette has had some interesting articles as well. Boxcab E50
Michael, I'm considering using code 83 for my On3 track with Die cast locos. In your opinion will it hold up or should I stick to code 100? BTW - I'm 1940's D&RGW.
I've only heard of problems with Code 70...so you're probably fine. In 1923, the entire San Juan Extension mainline was re-laid with 70# rail...which is closest to Code 100 rail. Code 83 rail would be 56# rail...which is fine for the C&S but too small for any of the D&RG(W) 2-8-2s. Prior to 1934, the Chili Line had a mix of smaller rails along with the 70# rail...but after 1934, it was all at least that heavy for the K-28s. Michael
Hi Michael, You are a great source of info! Thanx. It looks like I'll stick with code 100. Anyway, with my aging eyes it will be easier to see as well!
Excellent! Do you have the 2009? Or more? There have been four published now. Might be worth exploring them all? Believe the back issues can be had via Carstens. Boxcab E50
Here's a few links to some O-scale narrow gauge work: Lex Parker of the Maple Leaf Mafia: Lex Parker's DRGW Railroad Terrapin NG Society: Rolling Stock The Mini-Bunch: Mini-bunch Layouts and WEB pages Michael
Okay, so I'll pipe up.. I'm modeling HOn30 and basing it on a Caribbean theme. There's alot of good ideas south of the border if you start looking. Steam, diesel, trolleys and on and on... Currently I'm building equipment for my home layout which I started construction this spring. Pretty much everything is freelanced, but based on different prototypes. The fun part for me is there isn't alot of "take it out of the box" you can do. As for running quality, you'de be surprised. Most of my power is based on good running engines with decoders. I'm building one engine that looks like a GE reject, complete with sound, built on an Atlas RSD-4/5 chassis. If I were going to start over, I would have to give HOn3 and Blackstone alot of thought. They're stuff is just out of this world. AR
