SLSF The Good Old Days

Hi to all you Frisco fans,

I just want to post a little bit today and maybe establish contact with a few other Frisco fans.

My name is Ed, I live in Cincinnati and worked for the Frisco for three years as a brakeman and switchman in the early 60's.

I come from a Frisco family and have fond, if sad, memories of the old Frisco. My parents were office workers, my brother worked a few summers in the shops and in industrial engineering. We lived in Springfield, MO, the crossroads and operating headquarters of the Frisco.

Here is the beginning of my journies on the Frisco. I graduated from high school in 1961 and hired out as a brakeman and went to Enid, OK, to do my student runs. Enid was the headquarters of the Western Division and was the location of large wheat collection and storage facilities. Wheat was the primary commodity on the Western. The Western was a very seasonal operation.

In those days, the training consisted of riding all the subdivisions of that division -- for no pay -- as a student brakeman. Then you were considered "qualified" to mark up as a brakeman on the extra board. Far different from the intense training programs of today. We worked with a five man crew: conductor, two brakemen, engineer and fireman. We were allowed to work 15 hours 59 minutes before the "hogs" got us.

There were four Subs radiating from Enid: Avard, Tulsa, Beaumont and Snyder (Frederick? not sure). I rode all of them. The rides took 7 days. We had cabooses on the trains. The usual motive power was GP-7's. Never any covered wagons. We had no walkie talkies for communication. All moves were made with hand signals in the daylight hours or with electric lanterns after dark. We always operated "dark". Strictly train orders and watches.

Speaking of cabooses, about the only time I rode in them was during my student runs. The conductor was always in the caboose and he was my primary instructor during the student runs. Usually the senior brakeman rode in the caboose and the junior brakeman rode the engine. During student runs, I got a lot of practice and instruction from both the conductor and rear end brakeman. After the student runs, I was in the engine 95% of the time. Still it was always a thrill to climb into the cupola and sit up there watching the train for the appearance of any "hot boxes". There's another term from the past. It was also a great way to watch the passing scenery as you traveled down the track.

Those were the days of railroad watches. They were mandatory. In '61, the wristwatch was just being permitted as an official railroad timepiece. The Bulova Accutron was the preferred watch. It also was quite expensive. In those days, it seems that the price of an Accutron was well over $100, which was a small fortune. I opted for the Hamilton electric wristwatch which was not as accurate as the Accutron but was considerably cheaper.

We also walked on the catwalks of boxcars and jumped from one car to the next when we needed to reposition ourselves. You "had" to have good balance. There were no second chances if you fell from the catwalk of a boxcar. It was always scary to climb up the ladder and stand on the catwalk. You were up there during switching moves in order to pass signals to the engineer. That meant that the train was moving while you stood up there with no protection in case you lost your balance.

You learned to compensate for the side-to-side sway of the car and to be ready for any slack action. The slack could "run in" when the cars bunched up against the couplers or it could "run out" when the cars stretched away from the couplers. Since switching was often done without "air" on the train lines, slack action was a frequent occurrence. You learned to listen for the telltale sounds of bump-bump-bump to let you know that some slack action was about to come to your car. In time it became second nature to anticipate slace action.

At that time the Avard sub was a branch line that connected with the Santa Fe main at Avard, OK. The track was good for 10 or 15 mph. On my student run we took a switch engine, run by an engineer called "FrogEyes" Doremus. He was called FrogEyes because he wore round, steel rim glasses that emphasized his already large, round eyes. Somewhere along the way, my Student Letter slipped out of my pocket. I was chagrined at the matter but told the conductor because without that student letter, there was no way to prove that I had made all my student runs. He conferred with FrogEyes and we ended up backing the train several miles down the line until FrogEyes spotted the letter in the weeds. He stopped the train and I hurriedly scuttled off the engine to retrieve the letter. I was the butt of more than a few jokes over the incident. The trip to Avard continued without incident.

It is interesting to note that the low grade branch line of 1961 has become a heavy duty main line which connects with the old Santa Fe main at Avard. I wouldn't know it if I were to return.

I am about out of recollections for today. Hope to hear from a few of you Frisco fans out there. I'll post more recollections as they come to mind.

Remember, Ship It On The Frisco !!

Toottoot,

Ed

 

Hi Ed, Welcome to the TrainBoard family! At one time, maybe before your time just a little bit, say about in the 1930's, do you know if the Frisco went as far west to have gone through Aline, Okla.? The line went north and south through town, and as far south as Cleo, Okla. but I'm not sure it was the Frisco. I rode that line several times and once all the way from Wichita, Kansas to Aline. The passenger was a DoodleBug back then, not a lot of trafic.

 

Hi Bob,

Many thanks for your kind words. I do have a few more stories and will be posting them as time goes on.


<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by friscobob:
Great stories, Ed! Welcome to Trainboard!
If you have any more tales, please feel free to tell 'em here.

For several years, my folks managed the Rogers Motel in Afton, OK, which was a crew change point for trains between Kansas City and Tulsa. There were four regular freights, plus KC-Tulsa yard drags and the occasional extra freight. Afton was/is the point where the Afton Subdivision connects with the Cherokee Sub (Monett-Tulsa), and we had 14-16 freights a day through town. Everything from the QLA (the hottest train) to the
yard drags would scream thru town, sounding like they would take it apart.

** GOOD MEMORIES.......ESPECIALLY FOR A RAILBUFF LIKE YOURSELF.

THE KC>SPRINGFIELD LINE WENT THRU FT. SCOTT THEN TURNED TO THE SOUTHEAST TO GO DIRECTLY TO SPRINGFIELD. I MADE A NUMBER OF FREIGHT RUNS FROM KC > FT.SCOTT. MORE ABOUT THEM IS A LATER POSTING.

I NEVER DID QUITE FIGURE THE LABYRINTH OF TRACKS AND RAILROADS IN THE PITTSBURG, KS, > JOPLIN, MO > MIAMI, OK, AREA. THEY WERE LIKE A HONEYCOMB.

At night, the nose Gyralites (called wig-wags by the railroaders) could be seen for several miles, the sign of another approaching freight.

** ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE MARS LIGHTS? IF SO THESE WERE ONLY ON PASSENGER DIESELS. THEY MADE A FIGURE-8 PATTERN OF ROTATION. YES, THEIR PURPOSE WAS TO GET THE ATTENTION OF DRIVERS AT A GRADE CROSSINGS. AS I RECALL, THE MARS LIGHTS RAN ALL THE TIME NOT JUST AT GRADE CROSSINGS.

Since Afton was a crew change point, the depot was staffed 24-7. We knew all the boys from Ft. Scott (off the Afton Sub), and they were by and large a friendly bunch. The Tulsa crews were decent fellows, but seemed aloof. My summer job was as the night desk clerk, which also meant cleaning the rooms as the crew called out would leave. The last train was 137 (KC-Tulsa), and it came in around 4:00 AM. After the Ft. Scott crew signed in & went to their rooms, I'd lock up and go to bed- I had one of the motel rooms to myself,
so I could get some sleep.

** GOOD FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH CREWS. WE WEREN'T A BAD LOT AS A WHOLE.

Some of my memories of the Frisco......I wasn't a railroader, but Frisco did help put food on our table.<hr></blockquote>


** THANKS FOR YOUR MEMORIES....... THEY ARE GOOD ONES.

Toottoot,

Ed

 

Hi Watash,

Thanks for your reply and comments. I'm really enjoying this group. Hope to get a few more people involved in posting here.

SEE "**" BELOW

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by watash:
Hi Ed, Welcome to the TrainBoard family! At one time, maybe before your time just a little bit, say about in the 1930's,

** HEH, HEH, YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF YEARS ON ME. I WAS A '43 BABY.

do you know if the Frisco went as far west to have gone through Aline, Okla.?

** WELL, WELL, WHERE IS ALINE?? IT ISN'T ON THE RAND MCNALLY ATLAS. SO HERE WE GO TO MAPQUEST. AHA!! THERE IT IS. JUST WEST OF ENID. NOT FAR OFF THE OLD AVARD SUB. THE 1955 RMcN RAIL ATLAS SHOWS THE LINE THRU ALINE BEING A BRANCH LINE OF THE SANTA FE. IT MAY HAVE BEEN THE SANTA FE THAT YOU RECALL RIDING. THAT S.F. BRANCH CROSSES THE AVARD SUB AT CARMEN, OK. THE LINE CONTINUED SOUTH OF ALINE AND JOINED THE FRISCO AT THOMAS. I'M NOT SURE IF THE S.F. OPERATED OVER THE FRISCO FROM THOMAS TO CLINTON, BUT FROM THE LOOKS OF THE MAP, I RATHER SUSPECT THAT IT DID.

*NEVERTHELESS, A GREAT STORY AND GREAT MEMORIES. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT RIDING THE DOODLEBUG?? I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FASCINATED WITH THEM AND NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO RIDE ONE.

The line went north and south through town, and as far south as Cleo, Okla. but I'm not sure it was the Frisco. I rode that line several times and once all the way from Wichita, Kansas to Aline. The passenger was a DoodleBug back then, not a lot of trafic. <hr></blockquote>

** The ride from Wichita to Aline must have been a regular dogleg route. Sure wish I had been with you that day. Can you recall any of the towns along the way from Wichita to Aline? Did you change trains along the way??

I take it thet Aline was your childhood hometown. Must have been a great place to grow up.

Thanks again for your welcome.

TootToot,

ED

[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: Edtrain ]</p>

 

great stories-----how about some more ?

 

When I worked for the Southern Pacific, I was Telegrapher, Wire chief, Clerk, Teletype operator and ticket agent. Around 1960 or 61 a freight train plowed into a flatbed truck a couple miles south of the station. Seems that the driver of the truck was drunk and thought the tracks was the highway. The truck was demolished as well as a couple hundred feet of track and ties. The driver survide with nothing more that a few scratches and bruises. He complained that the train had no business running on the street.

The Cascade, the overnight passenger from Portland to San Francisco stops at my depot to change crews. This was at a little place called Gerber. California. The officials determined that it would take about 4 hours to repair the tracks and ordered the train held at Gerber. Of course with the wreck nothing was running so I had nothin to do. About a half hour after the Cascade arrived a man came up to the window and asked if there was someplace he could get some coffee and dounuts. When I looked up, I did a double take. I said there was a cafe about a half block away where the train crews eat. He asked if I could join him. I told him I would have to check with the dispacter and Yard Master. Both said I could go but be back in an hour. That was one of the best conversations I had. I really enjoyed talking with Jack Benny

 

Hey Telegrapher,

Now that's a great story. Thanks for sharing.

umm. .. did you have to pay for the coffee and donuts...........or was Jack more generous than he wanted people to believe.

Toottoot,

Ed

 

Ed,
The doodlebugs I rode on were early in the 1930's. All I remember was we left Wichita going toward the sun (East) til we got to the edge of town, then it curved to the south and went to Anthony, then went on south stopping at several towns along the way. People would get on and off, and they would load big 10 gallon milk cans on and set off empties. There were boxes of all sizes too. Things like farm machinery parts and stuff. Sometimes he would stop over a crossing and a farmer would back up his Ford "T" model truck and they would load stuff off on the truck, then we would go on. I don't think they are that nice today.

The first "Bug" was all black and had wooden sides and scarey black and white stripes and big windows on the flat front. There was a big grille in the middle. There was a big room right behind the motorman's cabin where baggage and goods were put, that had a big sliding door on both sides, then the rest of the car was all seats. There was a little back porch you could go out on, but grandma didn't like it because it made her sick riding backwards! Grandma took me up front to talk to the motorman, and I watched him shift gears several times gaining speed. We had to shout to talk to him because the motor was right there and was huge and very loud! I was three or four, but I still remember that. I would go down to Anthony to spend a week with Grandma, then we would go back home on it, but that was at night.

Then they got a new one in 1935. It was all steel and shiney black and was more streamlined. It had rounded edges along the top and sorta rounded front, and the cow catcher was real little. It still had a "Doodle-doodle" sound but he didn't have to shift gears anymore. That is the one he let me sit on his lap and "run". Now that was a big thrill! He let me ring the bell when we came to a stop in the towns. In later years I began to ask questions, and found out what all the levers were for in the old one. There was one about 3 feet long with a latch that would fit a pawl into teeth on a large sector gear in the floor, that was the clutch. Foreward was "in gear" and back was "out". Next to it was another long lever that he shifted the gears with. then on a sort of small dashboard was another sector lever only about a foot long that was the throttle. To the right was the brake lever. There was two big dials, one was the motor R.P.M. that went up to 300 and the other one was the speedometer that went all the way up to 45! He got her up to 35 and we were really flying down the track! The fence posts were just a blurr! That old one had four exhaust stacks that went straight out the roof, that were as big as my head! There were huge batteries that ran an electric motor to start the big four cylinder diesel. It would whine like a radial airplane motor starting up, then the big one would "light off" a couple of cylinders at a time until all four were firing. Then he would idle it down around fifty rpm to warm up and pump up his air while people were getting seated. I remember the horn sounded like a steam ship's whistle, real low but loud. He could make it Moo like a cow! He was a fun guy. As I look back, I think he was probably showing off for my grandma.

The new one sounded like it probably had either four or maybe six cylinders, but the stacks all went up through the roof into a big muffler box up there. The seats were all padded and soft, and this one had a bathroom! How fancy! This one was pure class, you could still lower the windows, but they rolled up and down with a crank, instead of the strap. The horn was different too, it was more shrill like a truck horn and not as loud. It was more fun to ride too. He told me we were going a mile a minute! Grandma had to show me how to figure the speed, and I was flabbergasted to realize we were actually traveling at 60 miles an hour! That was faster than some cars of the day would go! I have only seen one photo of the old Bug, but Bachman makes a model of the newer one in HO, and of course, I got one coming for Christmas! (I hope). Ha! One other thing, I remember there was one time he pulled a dark green box car behind us. Later I discovered it was a Railway Express car. That was also the one we rode all the way to Aline to my other grandma's farm where I would spend two weeks every summer, until I got my job at the El Reno roundhouse for the summer. But by then the Doodlebugs were no longer running that I know of. There is lots I could tell, but those were great memories for me. Its really sad they will never come back. The interurbans were almost as much fun, and they didn't make ANY noise, but that's another story! G'nite all!

 

Ed. I offered to pay for the coffee and dounuts but Jack said he had invited me to join him and it was his treat. Back then the coffee and dounuts came to about $1.75. He gave the waitress a five dollar bill and said keep the change.

 

Ed, I was mistaken in my post above. My cousin says the "old" Doodle Bug was a three cylinder Budda diesel. (It sounded just like the name said repeatedly). My uncle used to take him to the shop in Newton, Kansas where those motors were overhauled, and he remembers seeing the piston out of one of those old bugs. It was big enough that he could have stuck his head inside the bore in the block of that one. There was a single exhaust that went straight up out the roof, from each cylinder, not four. That motor had a huge flywheel that carried the load to provide torque to start, and it did have four gears and a reverse. He also reminded me that the wheels would sometimes spin when starting, but the old motor never did seem to slow down, and didn't rev up very much either, they just shifted gears to gain or lose speed. It is hard to realize that was over 60 years ago!

It was the streamlined one that was the four cylinder, and they had done away with the rear vestibule veranda. Too many hobos would ride free back there, and it was deemed too dangerous for passengers. He says he thinks that was the Rock Island railroad, that went from Hutchinson, to Newton, Wichita, Wellington, Argonia, Anthony, Cherokee, Carmen, Aline, Cloe Springs, and Fairview. We remember we could stand up on a hill behind Grampa's house and see two big hills south west in the distance toward Cleo. The roads were just two sandy paths where the tires wore the weeds away. There was a good gravel road that went all the way to Enid from there, and there was a paved road in Enid. On farther south, was El Reno, where I worked in the roundhouse. Oh the times we had back in those days! What memories.

 

Telegrapher,

That story about Jack Benny ruins his reputation as a "skinflint". I had heard that he was indeed generous privately and your story proves it. Thanks a million for sharing.

Great stuff.

Ed

 

Ed.

I have heard that he was hard on his family but mostly it was his shows that he acted the skinflint. We had a nice chat just about everything.

Also coffee and donuts with Tennessy Earny Ford. He had a ranch someplace outside of Redding, Ca. This took place at a different time when the northbound cascade got delayed.

 

Hi Watash,

Boy do you ever tell a good story!!! Thanks for all the recollections about the doodlebugs. I can see why the others who post on this site hold you in such high esteem.

I love the part about the Budda diesels with the huge cylinders and the separate exhaust for each cylinder. Would I be right in guessing that there was little or no muffling of the exhaust?

I don't even begin to think that I can tell a story half as good as you but will try to keep up the series for a while.

One of the jobs I got a good number of times while working the Western Division out of Enid was the Southard Switcher. It was a day-long switching job at the gypsum plant in Southard, about 35 miles southwest of Enid. The spur was a booger because it curved eastward from the main and was on a downhill grade. The switch points faced northward towards Enid. The plant made gypsum board (aka Sheetrock or wallboard). The gypsum was dug out of the ground right there at the plant and formed into the sheets. Our job was simple in concept - deliver empty cars and pick up loaded cars. It was an all day job to accomplish this task.

This was one of the times where we spent a lot of time on top of the boxcars passing signals by hand. In fact we were so far apart that we used white paper towels in our hands to give better visibility. We sure could have used a few walkie-talkies in those days. We railroaded much the same as it was done at the turn on the 19th Century into the 20th Century. The only difference was that we used diesel power (GP7's) instead of steam locos.

The plant was at the bottom of this curved grade. I recall that there were several tracks that went deep into the plant. There must have been a small yard there but I spent most of my time on the catwalk passing signals so I can't tell you the layout of the yard.

One of the conductors on the Southard Switcher was a small-statured fellow who seemed pretty mild mannered. Turns out that he regularly went hunting rattlesnakes at the annual rattlesnake roundup in Okeene. He told me that he had killed the largest snake a couple of years before. I nodded in agreement yet he felt that he had to prove it. So, he took a newspaper clipping from his wallet. He was pictured in the clipping holding an unbelievably huge rattlesnake ....... dead of course. The snake was draped over his outstretched arms. The head of the snake touched the ground on one side and the tail touched the ground on the other side. As I look back at the recollection of that picture, the snake had to be atleast 8 feet or more in length. I stood agape at the picture. Who would believe that this diminutive, mild mannered man was brave enough to stalk and kill such a monstrous reptile? The picture proved it. I gained a new respect for this man at that very moment. I also wondered at his sanity but was not about to say anything to him. If he was crazy enough to go after a rattlesnake, he wouldn't think twice about going after me. I didn't want to find out.

We were warned about snakes nearly every day. I never saw one but had no doubt that they lurked "out there". I was careful to lace my boots all the way to the top. I also watched it when I stepped off a car on to the ground. I was careful when turning a switch. I had no desire to be bitten by a rattlesnake.

I remember leaving Enid early one morning on a trip to Snyder and the engineer commented on all the "Frisco babies" along this section of track. I asked what he meant. He said, "Well, we have to blow for all the crossings as we leave town. We wake up lots of people and since it's too early to get up and too late to go back to sleep, there's just one thing left to do............."

I think that many of the engineers took delight in contributing to the population growth in that little part of the world. They probably blew their whistles longer and more urgently that needed.........but that is mere specualtion.

That's about it for this time.

Ed

 

If anyone is interested, I have a number of Frisco System Employee Time Tables that I would part with for a reasonable sum. They are dated Sunday, October 17, 1971, and are No. 1. They are in mint condition.......read never opened. They are all the same. Size is 9 1/4" x 4 1/4". 50 pages long. Drop me an e-mail if interested.

Thanks, Ed

 

Hi Dick,

That was a speedy reply. I think it must be hard to be in a family where the father is "successful". The kids have some big shoes to fill. This story is not unusual in Hollywood.

Good to know that Jack knew how to treat the public.

I also have a little story about Tennessee Ernie. He did a number of shows "on location" during his reign on TV. One of the shows was done from Springfield, MO, and we all dutifully went down to the station to see him. He arrived in his own private car which was set out there at the station. The man knew how to travel --- in style by rail.

He stepped off the car and I was amazed that the man with the HUGE voice was barely 5'6" tall. From the waist up he was a big man. He was good to the gathered crowd and seemed to enjoy us. He put on a good show, as usual, in the old field house at Drury College.

Dick, thanks for your recollections. Please share any more that you have.

Ed

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Edtrain ]</p>

 

You are correct ED, the old Bug did not have mufflers, the new ones had a plenum chamber kind of muffler on top behind the cab ventilator. You could hear the old three-banger half a mile away.

Ed for some other tales, go to the "On the Rails" form, set your "days" to last year, and look at the Topic "Tales From the Cab", there is quite a list of things that have happened on the rails. That is where we have been telling this storys because some members have been copying them to keep in book form.