OK impasse - electricity and wiring, not my areas of expertise. All you old hands would ya take a look at my layout below and draw on it / advise this first-time layout builder some advice as to how to wire it for operation? Where to put the spacers, the leads, and the block electricity? Thanks for all the help in advance!! John Bartolotto
First I (and the rest of us) need to know is this DCC or just la-di-da DC? If it's DC, you need to break everything up into sections, lots of them. Roughly, to 2 mainlines (but in some sections too due to turnouts) and each one of the branches off the mainline AND each on of the tracks off of that. For example: well, let figure out how to paste a picture here Take an aerial view of it, straight down from the top and fill the picture up so the track is as large as it can be. Same image size tho. If you do this in DCC, then there will be a lot LESS wiring as each siding will need only a simple single isolation and the mainless pretty much the same (only 2 feeds for the two mainlines). NOTE: it could all be wired as one for DCC but you want the ability to protect certain areas like the branch lines in case you're trying to put a loco or power car on or other accidently shorting of the track, this would immediately shut down the entire layout or at least stop the locos. That's why you still put in a few separate sections even with DCC. Now, you will NOT need polarity and optionally Center Off switches like you would for the DC only where you want to reverse and engine or completely isolate it. Look, if you go DCC, the wiring will be literally just that, wire. 2 or 3 of the 4 output circuit breakers from Tony's at $80, the DCC command station (a PowerCab for $130 starter set) and your decoders. You'll never look back. If you go DC, you're looking at a lot of wiring, only ability to control any single loco or, you have to have a rotary selector switch for every track section to determine which DC power pack you want to connect to (you could get by with two and a toggle switch) Jeff
Yes Jeff. The wiring is going to the easy part. Its just the wiring of the decoders is going to be the hard part. I just hope I dont see it in action, otherwise I might get hook on DCC.
Jeff, Thanks. Photo that I posted is the best I have right now since I took the track off the foam to start laying the cork roadbed (the track was just temporarily pinned down to the foam to trace its outline on the foam). I will not be using DCC since the locos I will be using have no room for DCC to be placed in them. This will be an old fashioned la-di-da DC. John
Wiring your layout for DC is easy. All but one of your sidings come off the mainlines on the right, so they are the feeds for your two controllers. Most, if not all, of the section switching can be done as the turnouts change (what will you use for turnout motors?). The two mainlines interact on the middle track at the front - that needs to be switchable between the two controllers, again as the turnouts change. As for the single "reversed" siding, as its turnout changes, switch the inner mainline feed to that siding. Easy! Jeremy
Jeremy, Welcome to TrainBoard.com! Easy??? As Costello would say to Abbott during their "Who's on First" skit "I don't even know what you're talking about!" By DC we all me Direct Current right, not Digital Control? No turnout motors. All turnouts will be manually thrown. What are controllers? As I said, I'm electronically challenged. John
John, get yourself "PSL Book of Model Railway Wiring"byFREEZER, C.J. and all will become clear :teeth: best rgrds Chris http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=&tn=&isbn=1852601736&prh=&prl=
John, to keep it simple, I only block off one rail, then visually follow it trough each block. It can be misplaced when you go trough turns and turnouts. I see that you will have lot of switching. I recommend Lajos new snail controller with a AC adaptor build in. It makes switching lot easier, and lot more comfortable.
Sorry, I wrote in my native English, and I hadn't properly read your previous thread! By DC I meant "not DCC". Controllers are what you control your trains with - speed/direction; I think you need two. With manually thrown turnouts, you need to electrically isolate sections of your layout where you might want a loco to stand while another loco is running - each siding, for example. Usually one has switches on a control panel to turn the power to these sections on and off. Isolating gaps have to be cut in one of the rails to separate the sections. Here is a picture of your layout with the isolating gaps shown as red dots, and the switched feeds to the sections shown as triangles: yellow for the outer lines, purple for the inner. One set of sections has yellow triangles with purple dots inside: these are fed from a changeover switch that usually connects to the yellow controller, but can be changed to the purple controller when the crossover turnouts are in use. Hope that helps, Jeremy
Jeremy, WOW!!! How did you turn the photo to get it like that? That is so cool! Thanks for doing this and for showing me where all the "electrical work" should go!! I greatly appreciate it. OK so two controllers. Can I use MRC Railpower 1300s for this? Got it, I understand the “manually thrown turnouts, you need to electrically isolate sections of your layout where you might want a loco to stand while another loco is running - each siding, for example.” “Cut isolating gaps in one of the rails to separate the sections.” You mean near the turnouts, correct and do I cut the gaps on both rails? I understand the red dots as isolating gaps and I think I understand the rest of the info. Thanks so much for this Jeremy! John
Jeremy, Where in Munich are you located? I am in Weiden. Please contact me off line at jsbart@pjsnet1.de John
To turn the photo I used a program that changes the perspective. MRC 1300s are fine but you should use the version adapted for Z-scale. There are more modern controllers available which might give you more satisfaction. I've done a circuit diagram of the lower part of your layout to give you the idea. At the top of the diagram you will see a brown wire that connects to the common (un-gapped) rail thoughout the layout: it is recommended there is a feed at least every meter. At the bottom is the control panel with the controllers and section switches. I have shown some sections without switches - you have to decide where your locos might stand. Hope all is clear! Jeremy
Another technique for wiring is called "cab control". Here each section can be switched between the two (or even more) controllers using centre-off changeover switches. The section breaks and common rail wiring are the same as in my previous diagram. Jeremy
Does anyone know if the Wright turnouts John will be using are electro- or insul-frog, and what, if any, special wiring is needed with them. Thanks, Jeremy.
Jeremy. Wright turnouts have live frog. See http://www.wrightturnouts.com/index.html I recently bought Brawa wire 100 mtr Schaltlitze 0,14mm2 Cu.-Aufbau:18x0,10mm in the following colors: brown, red, blue, yellow, green and black. The hobby store dealer said since I was not going to run DCC then I didn't need thicker wire and that this diameter of wire would work. Is this wire good enough for my layout? John
John, I thought this tread might interest you. http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=76555
John - Thanks!! I remeber that thread but didn't pay much attention to it cause I was not at that point in my layout's "life". Glad you remembered! Jeremy - Did you read through that thread on Wright Turnouts? What do you think? Should I go with manual throws (I was planning on using Micron Arts brass throws) or should I go with an electrical throw? I will post the wiring directions for Wright Turnouts later today. John
John, I've read the Wright thread - sorry I didn't do my research before posting! I would go for electric throw, but you have 18 turnouts. I'll think about it over the weekend - just off to our hut. Jeremy
what a phenomenal thread this is. jb really went the extra mile with his graphics and help. i love this board and the kind and thoughtful assistance people give. it's a kodak moment. dave f.
Jeremy - Enjoy your weekend! I'll be laying the cork roadbed and working the foam sub-bed. Dave - Isn't this great! Good stuff for begginer and expert a like that is why Jeremy and I agreed to keep communicating back and forth about all this on TrainBoard. We figured we could have done this via private emails but then everyon else would not benefit from the discussion and Jeremy's fantastic electrical knowledge!! John
