Texting+Driving+Train=Accident

BuddyBurton Oct 29, 2010

  1. subwayaz

    subwayaz TrainBoard Member

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    The Air Force had a similar system in an Aircraft called the FB 111 where it flew close to the terrain by auto pilot and so many of the aircrews died as the planes plowed into the sides of this terrain it was so close to. Sure hope if they come out with something like this that the technology is much better.
    The Air Force abandoned the idea and hasn't gone back to it except for the unmanned aircraft. The Predator. LOL they don't even put Monkeys in them.
     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I am pro, as well. I believe it gets introduced to quickly, due to the almighty dollar and need to recover investment.

    I wonder how many places do not have a cell phone/texting while driving restriction these days? Such laws are quite wide spread now.

    Boxcab E50
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2010
  3. Mark Watson

    Mark Watson TrainBoard Member

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    Keep in mind that no one is saying this will replace the driver. Really this is simply a high-tech autopilot, and autopilot is how many decades old now? Again, autopilot does not replace the pilot, it simply allows them to assume a passive role in operating the vehicle yet remain available to take over if necessary.
     
  4. DragonFyreGT

    DragonFyreGT TrainBoard Member

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    So almost like Volvo and Nissan's new systems where you have a 360 degree onboard computer that alerts you to even the blind spot (Technology isn't out yet, but their both working on it)?
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Doesn't Mercedes-Benz have a system of some sort?

    Just on the radio news here- Billings, Montana passed and it went into effect at midnight last night, a cell phone/hands free law. With a stiff fine and no first time offender allowance.

    Boxcab E50
     
  6. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    And my side of the argument, right now, no computer has mastered creative thinking. You can program them for a million outcomes, but you can't give them everything that will happen. A creative human mind is still needed.

    And a passive postion for autopilot is not such a good idea either, as it can promote driver fatigue. I must however applaud the Blindspot detector cars, because their radio ads even say "Don't rely on the sensors. Always look before changing lanes."
     
  7. DragonFyreGT

    DragonFyreGT TrainBoard Member

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    One of my cousins that's still in Iraq is a Navy Pilot. During training they teach them to refuel using the autopilot but they put emphasis on doing it manually. Mostly because the computer systems can fail. Technology is great but several points are correct about it being introduced too fast. Computers are great but so is the human mind. You can't take us out of the equation all together. And not allowing driving with a cell phone or driving distracted and not allowing a first time offense to be "let go".

    Maybe stupid can be fixed, if we actually stop creating products and passing laws that say "Stupid? Okay. Not our problem!"
     
  8. Mark Watson

    Mark Watson TrainBoard Member

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    Creative thinking, no, not yet. But when was the last time driving required creative thinking? ;)

    The passive role in driving would actually make driving under fatigue safer. As can be seen by the title of this thread, people think they can do anything while driving. What if instead you put the auto-driver in charge. The car can then travel on safely while the driver rests his/her eyes. If a situation should arise that requires attention, the car would alert the driver. That little bit of adrenalin that kicks in would be more than adequate to allow a fatigued driver to perform any necessary adjustment before returning control back to the auto-driver. I would much rather be on the road with an auto-driver + fatigued driver, than with a fatigued driver without auto-driver.


    Computers these days still fail, yes. However the human mind is capable of making infinitely more incorrect decisions or mistakes, such as... wait for it.... texting while driving. Also, refueling an airborne aircraft vs driving a car down the freeway are two completely different tasks. I would even argue that driving the car requires many times the concentration as would refueling the aircraft (assuming the pilot is as familiar with flying as the average driver is with driving).

    Auto-driver technology is a simple concept, and though minimal, testing has proven it works. Driving is a routine procedure and very very rarely are traffic deaths caused by forces other than human error. If the technology is there to take the human out of the equation, the the obvious question I have is; Why is it being introduced too fast? I can not think of any situation where a solution to a problem is found, yet I would say, "Well hold on there, lets see what happens if we just wait a little longer."

    How many more lives would be converted into statistics while we wait? What exactly should we be waiting for?
     
  9. DragonFyreGT

    DragonFyreGT TrainBoard Member

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    No matter how much technology has evolved, we don't eliminate statistics or numbers. This computer system that drives can't fail. It can't have the "blue screen of death" to use a phase. It has to survive and if a computer fails it has to have a way to diagnose w/o stopping or causing a wreck, i.e. the flight computer systems of the F-22 Raptor. There is so much this can achieve, I'm not denying that, but this isn't something that can be overlooked. Every possible thing has to be thought of to prevent even one wreck.

    One more thing that we haven't looked at. Money. How do we know this car will be produced with the cheapest stuff possible so that mass production makes it cost effective to the corporations who want money instead of a product that functions? That right there is the reason Hybrids don't work. True electrical power can be unstoppable in terms of performance but people aren't going to produce a product that they can't get rich on.
     
  10. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Driving maybe not but riding definitely. Creative thinking is about the only recourse when riding (in my case a motorcycle) to keep a step ahead of the drivers who haven't a clue what they are doing before they are doing it! ;)
     
  11. Rule 281

    Rule 281 TrainBoard Member

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    Everyone, it seems is in a rush to take the 'human' out of 'human error' by controlling increasingly complex functions with technology. The problem is...that leads to increasing technology 'error' that requires human intervention. Catch 22.

    Nope, you really can't fix stupid...but you can't replace it with dumb and expect a better outcome either.
     
  12. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    The sad thing is, the people that need to read this thread will never hear of or know it exists. The attitude of "It won't happen to me" prevails.

    I remember a time when drivers ed teachers taught that eating in the car, listening to the radio (changing channels), talking (turning your head to make eye contact with the individual you are talking to) are all distractions that can cause accidents due to the lack of attention to your driving. Never mind not driving while under the influence or while on drugs.

    As a retired Ambulance Attendant/Driver, Mortician/Funeral Director and as my last hurrrah on the lower rung of Hospital Administration. I've seen more then I need to, to convince me, we humans are fallible to a fault. Often making decisions that are fatal or better said....everlasting.

    I have no idea how to stop this... anything but innocent slaughter. It's a choice thing. If you choose to look away while driving...you choose to gamble with your life and others. Is the consequences worth it?

    Is there anything fair in life?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2010
  13. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, to be fair, I doubt anyone in this thread said anything that would convince anyone to change their habits, so really having a bunch of driving texters read the thread probably would accomplish nothing.

    I'm not sure what would honestly.
    Driving a car is the single most dangerous thing most people will ever do in their lives and nobody, probably not even the people in this thread actually treats driving like that's true.
    Maybe there are no cellphone distracted drivers here, but that's just a single thing out of many.
    Had a bad day at work and are stewing on the drive home? That's distracted driving. It's your anniversary and your anticipating a night with your significant other? That's distracted driving. Fiddling with the radio even to hit a preset? Talking to a passenger? See something interesting off to the side and turn to look? Maybe you're driving by the local rail yard?

    I always have a hard time with these kinds of threads. Looking down on people doing something dumb when my admittedly short 35 years on this planet has proven to me that everybody is a fool behind the wheel and we all live in glass houses. with piles of rocks at the ready.

    Which is not to discount the significant and distinct risk that cell phones cause, but they are hardly the only distraction.
     
  14. Rule 281

    Rule 281 TrainBoard Member

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    True on all counts. I think that that's part of where the push for automation comes from...it's fairly obvious that you can't make people stop doing anything they really want to do with promises of legislation, courts, fines, injury or fatality. What else can you threaten them with that doesn't already exist? People will do foolish, risky things either out of carelessness or maliciousness regardless of the hammer hanging over their heads. That slant toward iffy behavior among us humans is as ingrained as breathing so lecturing and punishing is going to have only a temporary effect at best. The idea of taking the warm-bodied computer out of the equation and replacing it with an electronic one is appealing because you don't have to convince the hard-wiring. You just tell it what you want and that's that. No more distractions, no more problems. If only it were that simple...
     
  15. Flashwave

    Flashwave TrainBoard Member

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    In attempting to avoid an accident already occuring ahead of you? How best to try to "control" a car in a skid/hydroplane/on black ice? Even how to get across 3 lanes of semis safely to your exit coming up in a half-mile.

    Okay, that last one could be mapped out based on computers in other vehicles talkign to each other, but having had experience hydroplaning, and on black ice (once, each, NEVER AGAIN do I want to do that) I don't tink a computer is going to have the ability to control (being a relative term here) it any better than I can, nor do I think it could feel out the situation like a driver can (or should be able to...). They also don't tend to have guardian angels for that dumb luck factor.



    Right, except (and they teach us this much in Driver's ED, or did 2 years ago) a driver who's not doing anything, or doing less than normal, is more easly bored and distracted. When it comes time the car does need them, he/she may be asleep or drowzy enough to the equivalent and be just as worthless. They teach us not to use Autopilot at night or when we're tired, because the speed regulation is one more thing the brain HAS to do so it fights to keep awake out of self preservation.
     
  16. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    While it's true there may be other distractions, I believe the point is that the very most unnecessary ones such as texting while driving are easily remedied perils. You simply do not need that badly to be in touch with the world. It can wait, or you can park to do it. If you've that much of an addiction, get help and stay off the road.

    If it were not for the fact of dragging innocent bystanders into a resulting horrendous mess, the world would not need to be so concerned.

    Boxcab E50
     
  17. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, the fact that you were 3 lanes to the left when your exit is half a mile away is at best piss poor driving and at worst going to get you a reckless driving ticket when you lane change. I wouldn't want the computer to address that. If for some reason that happened, the computer should pass the exit, move over safely, get off at the next exist and go back.

    Of course, Its just, when I read a thread where a bunch of people who have probably never driven truly safely in their lives are saying "throw the book at them." I tend to get a little put off.
    Again, I've never met a person that didn't live in a glass house.
    I guess what I'm saying is that aside from the practical aspects of computer assisted driving, I'm not sure there's any value in this thread...to the population at large as Rick implied.

    Eh, ignore me, I'm feeling cranky today.
     
  18. MOAVBILLY

    MOAVBILLY TrainBoard Member

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    They already have a motion sensor....GPS....
     
  19. DragonFyreGT

    DragonFyreGT TrainBoard Member

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    Honestly, I'd becareful when saying things like that. Not everyone can be accused of that. I've only been involved in one accident and it was the one where I got T-Boned by a texting driver that got my cousin killed. Everytime someone sees my modified Eclipse they assume I'm out dragging. Actually I drive safer than most people with stock vehicles, mostly because of the time and effort and money I put into a car to make it what it is.

    I grew up 1 block from The Chicago-Aurora Racetrack. My entire Life has been encompassed around railroads, I'm a smart enough driver that I don't take risks. 90 percent of all accidents and deaths seem to be my age and my generation, why am I the only young person that isn't being stupid behind the wheel? I don't screw around with cell phones, I don't eat in the car (Heck when you have custom leather seating, you don't do it anyways), I don't mess with the radio, and being a manual tranny, One hand is always on the stick.
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Outside of we who have been directly effected by a driver being stupid, it's probably hard for those inexperienced to comprehend. For me, it was two friends of mine, stone cold sober and driving safely, who were murdered by a drunk going the other way at over 100 mph. And that drunk? He was another mutual friend of ours! Who survived with only a few cuts and bruises. If you don't think that's a difficult outcome to absorb....

    So you won't mind if we unburden ourselves due to the frustration of knowing it can and must ALL be prevented. As far as I am concerned, those who text and drive are merely attempting murder and should be treated thus.

    Boxcab E50
     

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