So I have been doing some research on narrow gauge tank engines, specifically trying to see if any were even loosely associated with the C & S (unfortunately the answer is no as far as I can tell). Got me to wondering who actually did use these. I know that the Clear Creek had four used tanks that they ended up converting. What about the DSP& P? I also know there were many used in the Pacific, and they were popular in Europe, especially around WWI. Who else used these cool little engines?
There is a strange one at the Kentucky Railroad Museum. It was a narrow gauge tank engine that also had a tender. In this photo the tank has been removed and is on the flat car in front of the locomotive. You can barely see the edge of it. Can't find any information on where it was used.
I am trying to think of who, anywhere roughly in that region, might have had such an engine? If not industrial, could it be something off the old Tweetsie narrow gauge operations? EBT? Boxcab E50
I am reasonably certain that SVRY had narrow gauge UTLX tank cars. I am not sure how they got lease units to and from SVRY. It didn't interchange with another narrow gauge railroad.
Porter's 0-6-0s were common in the 1870s. The Colorado Central's first new locomotives were a pair of 0-6-0ts from Porter. Before them, they had (3) 0-4-0s (with tenders). The subsequent porters (all IIRC) were delivered as tank engines. All six survived into the mid-1880s. Here in Cincinnati, one of the local ng lines had a pair of Porter 0-6-0ts. Many of the tender version of that 0-6-0 were used throughout the US. I believe that the best approach to building either version would be to start with one of Grandt Line's porter kits. The Uintah did operate 0-6-2ts for passenger service as well as the 2-6-6-2ts. I believe that they were tank engines to gain additional adhesion on their steep grades. The Rio Grande, RGS, and EBT all had 0-6-0ts. The 0-4-0t on the EBT was owned by the parent company...but was sometimes stored in the EBT's engine house. The Rio Grande operated the Mountaineer...the only narrow gauge fairlee in the US. I'll go out on a limb and guess that tank engines were actually less applicable for narrow gauges than for standard gauge roads. The additional weight was more of a problem for the poorly built ng roads than for the well built standard gauge roads. Because the locomotives were frequently the maximum that the track could handle, a tank engine would be a bad idea as the adhesion drops as the water/fuel is depleted. A better solution would be to make the locomotive slightly heavier and store the fuel load in the tender. (Keep in mind that the Uintah's tank engines were much later) The South Park never had a tank engine (although I believe a steam dummy or something once made the trip to Morrison in the 1870s). If you consider them to be tank engines, then Mason Bogies and Forneys could be counted. The early Porter locomotives were from the early-mid 1870s. I believe that most were tender engines (they also offered some hideous 2-4-0s) Most of the roads decided that they were basically industrial locomotives and moved on to 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s (the Brooks 2-6-0 was the standard locomotive). Around 1880, 2-8-0s started to come into vogue...and then 4-6-0s slightly later. OF 2-8-0s became popular after the turn of the century...and then 2-8-2s around the same time as on standard gauge roads. Plans were drawn up for 2-10-2s, 2-6-6-2s, and 2-8-8-2s for the Colorado ng roads in the late 1920's and the 1930s. I plan on using my Grandt Line 18t porter on my mainline...perhaps with some of Grandt Line's gorgeous F-M dump cars. I plan on converting my B-man porter to On2 and use it for an industry. Tank engines most frequently showed up when used by contractors (typically dismantling).
Ooops! I am realizing that you all meant tank engines, not tank cars. Sumpter had the Uintah Mallets for a while but the tanks got removed at some point. The word is, though I don't know if this is absolutely true, that with the tanks on the locomotive that weight on the locos axles was too great for some of SVRY's track and trestles.
I've actually read that also. BTW, I have to correct my earlier post: It was the Colorado Central that started out with four tanks...not the "Clear Creek." As Michael mentions, the first locos they had were 0-4-0Ts that likely came out of Boston, used, and set to work as engines 1 through 3. The amazing thing is that these were used when purchased but put to work on America's first narrow gauge railroad (previously they were used for construction work in boston). The first new engines on the CCRR were also tanks, of the 0-6-0T variety (engines 4 and 5). From photographs it seems they did not keep their tanks for very long after being put into service, having tenders added instead. I recall seeing a photo in one of my now unavailable reference books of a tank being used in the construction of a reservoir on the east slope of Colorado but I suspect this was a standard gauge engine.
The B-man porters are really dinky. While they are too small to represent any porters I can think of touching common carrier rails after 1880, they are very nice locomotives. I have two suggestions: incorporate them into an industrial railroad on your layout... or what I'd love to do: an industrial (mining or logging) layout with 9"-12"R curves...plenty of little 4-wheel cars. That would be awesome...and I think that the B-man engines can sell this far better than large porters. The sort of layout that would make Malcolm Furlow or John Allen green with envy. Very few buildings...a wooden engine house...a mine. I firmly believe that most model railroaders really undermine realism with overly weathered equipment and way too dilapidated structures...which are far more believable on an industrial line than a common carrier. This little layout could be mounted on 2" thick foam board...and vary in size from 2'x4' to 4'x8'. It would be small enough, light enough, and have few enough buildings to be easy to move around...perhaps hanging 1' below the garage or basement ceiling when not in use...or stashed under a bed. I would regard the ideal rolling stock to be B-man's, Grandt Line's, and PSC's dump cars... http://www.grandtline.com/model_railroad/o_scale_car_and_loco_gallery/3103.jpg http://psc1.virtualfocus.com/images/107211735800002.jpg http://www.trainsetsonly.com/Merchant2/images/fullsized/FS160/lg160-29802.jpg http://www.trainsetsonly.com/Merchant2/images/fullsized/FS160/lg160-29801.jpg I'd love something like these for excursion cars: http://www.g-m-e.com/images/gilpin%20excursion%20cars%20web.jpg (although I'd want a cheaper source). Michael EDIT: John, IIRC, those were converted to tender engines by the UP before arriving in Golden. The best photos of them are in Hauck's Narrow Gauge to Central City and Silver Plume (CRA #10) A few pages later is a great pic of one of the 0-6-0ts in service...and one of the Souther 0-4-0s in the engine house at Golden (a very similar picture to a more famous view w/3ng engines...this one is better...with 4ng and 3sg locomotives).
Tank locos were reasonably common on New Zealand's 42" gauge system. Most were built in Britain or NZ but here's a link to some Baldwins: baldwin-steam.org.nz Wb 292
The bachmann locomotive very closely approximates a 0-4-0 in Prescott AZ, at the Sharlot Hall museum - or something close. But then that 0-4-0 is Standard Guage - but that did not stop it form carring cars between Prescott and at least poland if not mayer, Cleator, and even Crown King.
Once you go beyond North America, it seems tank engines were more common on every other continent. I'd say most European narrow gauge engines were tank engines; for example, every engine I know of from the Irish three-footers and Welsh two-footers. Not surprising, since in Britain and Europe, tank engines were the norm on standard gauge branchlines. Naturally, in countries where narrow gauges are standard, there were many tank engines. For example, in the late 19th-early 20th centuries, South Africa bought many 3'6" gauge 4-8-2Ts and even some 4-10-2Ts. Tender tanks (that is, the water tank on the engine but the fuel in the tender) don't seem to have been common globally. One notable area where they see use is Indonesia. The narrow gauge (24" to 30") 0-8-0T+T appears to have been the predominant design at sugar mills, and is common among surviving steam there. I could go on, but I think this is going off the intended topic.
Not off topic at all! Michael and I have been talking off the board and it seems the B-man porters are small even by modeling standards (24- inch drivers I believe you said Michael?). Of the European narrow gauge tanks, what was the average driver size? I know some of the tanks used in the sugar industry in Cuba were really small. One wonders where B-man got their dimensions?? BTW Boxcab, I like the idea of bashing them into a 0-4-4-4-4-4-0, but then my turn radius might have to change
That would be kind of a meaningless value, especially since several narrow gauges were common. Unlike in Britain, the main continental narrow gauges were metre gauge, several in the 30" range, and 2' gauge, the biggest user of the last being trench railways in WW1. Some example engines from the Saxon/East German narrow gauges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_99.51-60 75cm gauge 0-4-4-0T, 30" drivers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_99.73-76 and DR Class 99.77-79 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 75 cm gauge 2-10-2T, 31.5" drivers. These were the largest engines on this gauge in Germany, and maybe all Europe. Even large narrow gauge engines had small drivers. DRG Class 99.22 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_Class_99.23-24 Metre gauge 2-10-2T, 39" drivers.
A company called Magma rr started out with a short line narrow gage that had about three of them. One is in the town of Oracle, Arizona. My part of this Magma line had to do with the piece that went from Hadley to San Manuel. Most of the track has been pulled and the almost new smelter was distroyed. This part is what i am modeling and they used standard but if these links may help. one other thing, there is supposed to be a club in that area that is doing modeling of that area and a railroad museam. Magma Arizona Railroad The Magma Arizona Railroad Company | Resolution Copper Mining | A member of the Rio Tinto Group Arizona - Magma Arizona Railroad That should get you into the area you need, Smokey:thumbs_up:
I have always loved that area. As a kid my family spent summers on a dude ranch in the Superstitions. Looks like a fun railroad to model...
