Hey, guys, Dunno if this topic has been covered in another thread, or not. I've done a couple searches, and haven't found anything. I have a 4' x 8' HO project layout I just started that I intend to put up as an auction item for a local Cancer charity. I'd like a couple of the railroad-related buildings on the layout to reflect a Milwaukee Road Heritage, so I'm currious to know what colors the Milwaukee painted its structures in later years. In particular, depots and enginehouses. I've seen pictures in this forum of the restored Harlowtown depot, and see it's been repainted in cream and grey. How long did that scheme last? I believe both the Preston depot and enginehouse were painted in this scheme which lasted until the end of service in 1976. Although, for some reason, I was under the impression that some of the MILW structures were painted into a two-tone grey color... a light grey over a darker one. Am I mistaken, or were some structures painted in that scheme sometime in the 80s? Also, what colors were water and coaling towers painted (if they were, unless they were unpainted, and essentially "shelacked" with a coat of creosote. I'm thinking of possibly adding a water tower and coaling tower to the engine servicing facility... depends on my space available, though. Anyway, I'd appreciate any info you guys can give me on that. Thanks, guys!
Well, I don't know about a cream and gray scheme. Unless that cream was a trim color. There are a lot of errors in some of these "restorations" that get done. Late scheme was officially a two tone gray. This started during the Korean War, 1952-1953. However, there were some local variants such as with trim. Even a few eastern structures got white paint in the 1970s. After 1980 there were some buildings that received a brown. The grays varied wildly in hues, due to prep work or not, brand of paint, etc, etc, etc. Some of those lower/dark looked almost blue or greenish, on toward almost black. Some of the upper light gray washed out so badly it seemed white, but it was NOT. If you want to know some model colors, it would probably be best to contact John Dornfeld in Milwaukee. He is THE Milwaukee Road depot and structure expert, no ifs and or buts. If you do not know how to catch him, drop me a PM and I'll pass along.... Boxcab E50
Incidentally... Here's a link I posted on one of the soical networking sites I belong to. It's a link to a book review on Amazon.com, of The Milwaukee Road by Tom Murray. In said preview, on page 103 (if the link doesn't automatically take you there), is a picture of SW-1 #860 and a couple "sisters" rolling past the Preston (MN) depot (and if you look in the background, you can even see the grain elevator the historical society restored!). http://books.google.com/books?id=iR...&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false I wasn't sure if the colors were muted, due to the overcast day, or if that's the color the depot actually was. (The scan isn't the greatest. I've read the book, and the photo in the book is MUCH crisper!) (Also of note: the photo was taken in February of 1976, amost nine months before the last train rolled out of town on Ocober 29 and about ten months before I came into the world, "kicking and screaming" as they say.)
Hi Komachi: The Milwaukee Road board on Yahoo has had some good discussions on depot colors over the years. When I worked for the Milw, we painted structures in gray tones with some green thrown in. One time in the 70's, I was told to go to the freighthouse and get some paint cans, the cans were marked govt. surplus navy gray. I was told the company bought it at a govt. sale. MOW
Speaking as the co-owner of that Yahoo Group, and a long time Milw structure fan... As noted before, various films, lighting, weathering, prep-work or not, type of primer, (if any), paint type/brand, and you name it. Appearances could vary from the standards assigned. Boxcab E50 Coast Divn Milw family brat
Sorry Boxcab, I didn't mean to step on your toes. Colors varied alot over the years due to the many factors mentioned. When we actually scraped something before painting, several color layers were usually found. In the later days very little prep work was being done on the buildings. Most of us working track new something was coming, however we weren't ready for a complete shutdown. MOW
Well, I got in contact with Mr. Dornfeld, and he was gave me some good info. Thanks for referring him to me, Boxcab! While the majority of the online structures will be in the late two-tone grey scheme, I think I'm going to paint the pasenger depot in a scheme similar to the Minnehaha depot (also known as "The Princess Depot"), which is painted in a light tan/beige color for the upper part of the depot, with the lower parts and trim painted a shade of maroon. John said that many mainline depots were painted in this scheme (not so much branchline depots, like this one would be), but I think it would work for this depot, as a.) The colors come close to the Minnesota state colors of Maroon and Gold b.) This depot will depict one being restored by a local preservation group c.) The tan/maroon color will probably appeal to people more than the two-tone grey color scheme. So, that takes care of that. Now, if I can get an E-uint and some heavyweight passenger cars donated (or funds to acquire said equipmnt), I'll be able to have a tourist operation on the layout. (I'd like to get a good mix of cars so the person who wins the layout can run a variety of equipment, including a passenger train.) But, we'll see what the next seven months hold. Anyway, thanks again, Boxcab, and thanks MOW for your insights into the last days of the Milwaukee and structure maintenance (or lack thereof).
MOW- Don't worry! No toes stepped on. I just wanted to get those factors fresh into peoples minds. There at times are some heated debates, as too many people don't think about such possibilities. I have seen people paint Milw depot models blue and green, going from badly exposed photography or aged pictures. Or through simply being misled. One thing we fight constantly with MILW history, is old propaganda, (some fairy tales were deliberately put forth by competitor railroads seeking to steal business), false information and more. Worst of all, lazy "historians" of whom perpetuate falsehoods by just copying forward the myths, without doing proper research. Which is shameful at best, as people see their names and simply accept without question. Boxcab E50
I've known JD for a long time. We've traded a lot of Milw structure photos, drawings, etc, etc. He's a fabulous modeler, of much more than the Milw and usually will be very friendly to helping others. Boxcab E50
HI - Just noticed reference to the depot at Harlowton being cream with a dark grey (lower) color on the outside. Just want to clarify that photo was taken in the midst of a recent repainting. I shot the photo and posted it just illustrate the demise of the maroon and orange paint colors that were NEVER used (at least in Harlowton) although those colors were recently used to repaint the old depot in Cle Elum, Washington. The "cream" on the Harlowton depot is actually just primer. The depot is dark grey on the bottom and light grey on the top; the colors of the depot following WWII until its closure. The interior of the building is a cream green; also the original color. The roof was always shingled with green shingles. One tale says that the Milwaukee bought a couple of train loads of paint from the Navy after the war; battleship and dark gray. The trains dropped the paint off at facilities along the main line until the trains were empty. Before the war the depot in Harlowton was white with green shingles. Finally, the City of Harlowton just received a grant of $46,000.00 to renovate the depot - including new HAVC and security systems. The building is now on the National Registry of Historic Places (as is the entire yard area). This will be a busy summer at the Harlowton depot. Come and visit; the depot will be open to the public!
One thing that this thread points out for all of us documentarians is to make sure you include a color chart and grey card in your image area of the photographs. A yard stick is also useful. Hard to image but one day we will all be gone and what we shoot today can inspire either geat debate or nasty flame wars for future Milwaukee researchers. Time of day, lenses and weather can cause massive shifts in color rendered, especially in any, "grey" colored structures. Having a color chart and grey card in the corner of the image helps immensely for color correction. Mark Unemployed photographer
The orange and maroon colors on Milwaukee Road Lines West depots is well founded in fact. Keep in mind that the depots started being painted in other colors beginning around 1927-28 and only a handful escaped repainting so there are precious few color photos of the orange and maroon scheme. Originally the orange was a four color scheme, which included white (or cream) trim and black doors and window frames. Within a couple of years two of the colors were eliminated and the repaints were done in orange with maroon trim.
What Allen posts about the orange and maroon colors is fact. Those colors were much used, and on Lines West. The colors on Cle Elum's depot are historically accurate for that structure. The paint standards for those colors were established in 1927. See: Circular Letter #308-A, dated April 5, 1927. Boxcab E50
