I am steam stupid when it comes to the Frisco so can someone please tell me what designation the 4500 series 4-8-4's built by Baldwin are (where)? I want to add a steam locomotive to my collection. They look like "Northerns" but like I said I know nothing of steam
"Northern" is just a term applied to all steam locomotives of 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. Almost every railroad's 4-8-4s were different. Steam was generally built to the customer's design, unlike diesels built to the manufacturer's design. I've never seen a model of a Frisco 4-8-4, and I don't know if one exists in any scale.
They were called Northerns on the Frisco. The one in your photo is the first one delivered, 4503 and it and sisters through 4514 burned coal. 4500-4502 were later delivered as oil burners, and 4515-4524 were the last ones, all from Baldwin. Drury's book says because of wartime restrictions (all delivered 1942-43) they started out with the basic CB&Q O-5a and refined it. There are a couple of survivors, one at the Texas State Museum and another in or near Oklahoma City. :tb-biggrin:
On the DL&W they were called "Poconos", and on the NC&StL they were "Dixies". Other roads may have had nicknames for their 4-8-4 steamers, but as shown, they weren't all called Northerns.
New York Central named the 4-8-4 Niagara, and they looked very different from the Frisco's Northern. (Photo courtesy of http://www.fsmr.org.uk/niagara.html)
I have done extensive research on this matter as I would like to duplicate a Frisco 4-8-4 and here is what I found out. I want to thank all those who replied I appreciate the help. You will probably see pics of my new project here, before long. The first 4-8-4 was built by the American Locomotive Company, in January, 1927, for the Northern Pacific. This locomotive was basically the 4-8-2 modified to accomodate a large grate area and a very deep firebox which was required to burn the very low grade of bituminous coal that the Northern Pacicific produced from its own mines. This new wheel arrangement was dubbed "Nothern Pacific", which was quickly shortened to "Northern". There were 36 North American Railroads that owned and operated a total of 1,126 "Northern" type locomotives Some railroads, particularly the southern ones, rejected the "Northern" name and used names with a more regional connection. The C&O called them "Greenbriers"; the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western used the name "Poconos"; the Lehigh Valley came up with "Wyoming"; the Nashville, Chattanooga & St.Louis named them "Dixies"; the New York Central chose "Niagaras"; the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac named each of its 27, 4-8-4s after southern generals, governors and statesmen; the Southern Pacific used the name "Golden State"; the Western Maryland dubbed them "Potomacs" and in Canada, the CNR named them "Confederations" while the Nacionale de Mexico called them "Niagras". The St. Louis San Francisco Railroad received 25 Northern type locomotives (road numbers 4500 through 4524) from the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1943. This group was a mix of coal burners that weighed 462,500 lbs and oil burners that weighed 454,000 lbs. The oil burners (road number 4500 through 4502) were assigned to passenger service. All of these 4-8-4s had 74" drivers, 28 x 31 cylinders, a boiler pressure of 250 psi and a tractive effort of 69,800 pounds. There are four survivors: number 4500 at Sunbelt Railroad Historical Trust in Owasso, OK; number 4501 at the Age of Steam Railroad Museum in Dallas, TX; number 4516 at the State Fairgrounds in Sedalia, MO and number 4524 at Grant Beach Park in Springfield, MO Wheel Arrangement:4-8-4Length:105' - 3"Drivers:74" dia.Weight on Drivers:279,840 lbsTotal Locomotive Weight:464,850 lbsLocomotive & Tender Weight:811,050 lbsGrate Area:88.3 sq ftCylinders (dia. x stroke)2) 28" x 31"Boiler Pressure:255 psiTractive Effort:71,200 lbsTender Capacity:18,000 gals. of water and 6,500 gals. of fuel oil
