Hi Guys... I want to model a line that runs in the direction as a dirt road..NOT a Grade Crossing. Can anyone tell me if this resulted in the train tracks being more dirty, less dirty or equally dirdy than the resty of the road. And I am ONLY running steam locos on the street tracks. Any pictures anyone has would be a help as well.
"Street Running" was not uncommon in the steam era in North America. I can't think of an example where the street wasn't paved somehow, though. Usually, the paving brought the road surface up even with the railhead. In a seedy industrial area or a harbor, the condition of the street and the rails could be pretty rough. If the road was not paved level with the railhead, then wagons or vehicles would have a major challenge not to get hung up trying to cross the rails. The case of a main stem going down the main street of a town happened a lot in the Southern States, and was not that unusual in the mid-West, either. Those right of ways were pretty well maintained. As to dirt and oil and whatever, there was some, but I don't remember it being any worse than it would be at a grade crossing. If a lot of shunting was done, there might be some spills of sand laid down for locomotive traction in starting out. I have no pictures. The hobby magazines have contained examples of street running from time to time, with tips on how to model that. I'll search for "street running" and see what I turn up. [ September 02, 2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]
Street running steam photos: SP&S 700 in the street UP Big Boy 4023 (sorry - too funny to pass up!) N&W 1218 in the street That's if for "steam street running" from RailPictures. I'll look a little more. [ September 03, 2005, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]
This may be as good as I can find. It is a colorized 1914 post card photo taken on the Green Bay and Western, and is actually more of a grade crossing of a dirt street than strictly street running. You can see the dirt street is graded and compacted to approximate railhead level. You can also see the rail right of way is just as filthy as the street. Shiocton Street scene GB&W 1914 there are a number of similar photos on this site. You might find it worth your while to browse and see if you find what you are looking for: old GB&W photos BTW, I was searching for "railroad steam locomotive street running dirt" when I found these. I use Google advanced search for this type of search
The only example I can think of with a dirt street is on the South Shore in South Bend, Indiana. That was operated up until about 1970, but it was an electrified railroad, not steam. However, knowing it exists you wouldn't be too far off base to claim yours could've existed, either.
Curiosity got the better of me and I did some more digging on this subject. The photo I have is on pg. 59 of "Chicago, South Shore & South Bend in Color" by Kevin J. Holland. (Morning Sun Books, 2005) It shows the operation on Orange Street in South Bend on May 28, 1970. This would have ended shortly after the photo was taken as the South Shore moved its eastern terminus to Bendix Station, eliminating the downtown stop and street running in town. Even thought the Shouth Shore didn't completely dieselize until the late 1970's, there were diesels on the property as early as 1955. It's possible then that at least non-electric trains operated on this segment, even if no photographic proof is currently available to support this.
GOT IT! The New York Central in Goshen, Indiana had a few blocks of street running. This line is still operated by Norfolk Southern, but the street has been altered with the addition of curbs to keep the railroad seperate (even if still in the middle of) from the street. Back in the steam era the street was evidently still dirt, too. Photographic proof is on pg. 46 of "New York Central Trackside with Eugene Van Dusen" by Bill Marvel. (Morning Sun Books 1997) There are two photos that show steam operations in Goshen on November 8, 1952. It looks like even then part of the right-of-way was embedded in the street and part was already seperated by curbs. At least you know now that there's a prototype for this.
Good detective work guys I always intended to have street running in my model railroads, but somehow could never get it fitted into the plans. I am sure I have a video with trains running down the street and curving off past the corner of a house - very close! They were diesel hauled coal trains, but guess they were once steam hauled. Cannot remember which video
Pete- If tracks were embedded in a dirt street, they likely caused a few maintenance headaches. I don't recall seeing pictures of other than trolleys or an industrial spur, in a non-paved street. But one never knows. Boxcab E50
As a kid in Berkeley, CA, the Key System (heavy) interurban "E" line from San Francisco ran up the middle of Claremont Avenue. With the frequent stops, the pavement next to the rails got pretty chewed up, and in later yaers (1955-1958) it got downright dangeous for a 12 year old on his Schwinn! The "C" line in Oakland didn't fare much better (see foreground). (Yeah, I know it's not steam, but I did see an steam switcher run up the street on an excursion once!) [ September 06, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: dstuard ]
More street running madness! First off, I was mistaken in my original post. Orange Street in South Bend is west of the old downtown terminal so all passenger trains bound for the city would traverse it. Also, on page 63 of "Trackside on New York Central's Western Division with Sandy Goodrick" by Jerry Pinkepank (Morning Sun Books 2003) there's a photo of a South Shore steeple-cab electric with train in tow on said street trackage. There is also another instance on pgs. 116-117 of the same book of a steam-powered passenger excursion on street trackage in Niles, Michigan in November 1952. The trackage runs along one side of the unpaved Ninth Street in Niles.
Probably the best example is in regular use, in Colorado, and it turns out to be exactly what Pete in UK was looking for. The Silverton end of the Durango and Silverton tourist line teminates in a wye, so the train can be turned intact. One leg of the wye runs down a Silverton side street. The last time I rode it, we unloaded and re-loaded a couple hours later, smack dab in the middle of the street. Pete and I conversed off forum, and it turns out the D&S operation does exactly what he wants to do, and gives him a real-world, modern-as-today justification to do it. I'm ashamed of myself for not thinking of the Silverton sooner. On the Sun'N'Sand, we have a simulation of a movie set, similar to the the "Old Tucson" lot. "Old Tuscon" was in too many Western movies and TV shows to name. Sad that an arson fire (IIRC) reduced it to ashes a few years ago. Our track is grade-separated, not in the street, but here's my "Silverton" look-alike, on the Saloon module on the SnS NTrak layout in Scottsdale:
Longtrain: I was at Old Tucson September 2002, after the arson. They did lose a large number of their buildings, but a fair amount survived, and it's been rebuilt. It's a nice part-time Movie Set / part-time tourist trap if anyone's ever down Tucson way. They even had a train when I was there. An old 4-4-0, apparantly star of several movies. Main Street, Old Tucson, 2002
Thanks for the Silverton picture and the "Old Tucson" update, guys. I'm glad the Old Tuscon lot was not a total loss. I had heard it was nearly wiped out.
