Starting over

After nearly 3 years, I am contemplating tearing down my existing N-scale layout and starting over. There are several choics I made that I regret: 4% grade, 11 inch radius in two places, one including an S-Curve.

Now, I have a 14'x8' space. I prefer to stay with an around the room layout, with continuous running. Most of my equipment fits the mid-late 80's era. I enjoy urban scenery and am just starting the planning process.

Any ideas and suggestions are welcome.

To see my old layout, check the web page in my signature.

Jeff
Augsburg & Concord R.R.
(a fictional shortline in Central Illinois)
http://www.pegnsean.net/~revnjeff

 

I think we can all relate to what you've been through. I imagine that your earlier design "laws" were driven by wanting to cram as much as possible into as little a space as possible? I model in HO, but I'll give you a few suggestions based upon what I've done and torn up again.....

1. Make the maximum grade pretty forgiving. 1" in 3' or better yet 1" in 4'. I won't say what percent grade, but inches in feet rise. It's REALLY what you're using when you build the layout.

2. Make easements in the grade as well as the curves. Your stock will run a lot better, and much more smoothly. Make the track as consistently smooth and straight as you can. As little as 1/32nd of an inch will give you a noticeable wobble or wiggle to your trains as they run.

3. Make your curves at least 50% larger than the "minimums" shown for your scale. The NMRA numbers are good for larger locomotives and cars.

4. Make plenty of room for staging and switching. Even if you're not a "switching man", you'll still appreciate the space for storing your unused rolling stock. You do have enough of it don't you?

5. Leave some "unplanned" space and convenient spaces to break off and add to the layout. You'll get the fever again, and if you give yourself space to grow and "play" without tearing up everything then you'll be happier.

Mark

 

1/4" in 12" (or one inch in a foot) is a good rule of thumb type of grade - the math is easy and the grade is just a little over 2%.

I'm sure you know about easements in curves - but you should also allow for easements in grades - a good rule here is the transition easement should be at least as long as your longest piece of equipment. In N 6" should be enough. When you plan your grades, add 6" to either end and that is your start and end point. Plywood will naturally ease the grade - if you are using foam build it to the original start and end point and you can sand the point off to the 6-inch transition. This is often referred to as a vertical curve.

Avoid turnouts at the grade transitions! They will work on grades as long as the grade of both routes are the same - this is hard to do so best to avoid.

 

Wow, I took a look at what you have done and have to cringe when you say that you want to tear it down and start over. You have done a great deal of very nice work. I hope that you will be able to salvage some of it.

But there is something really special about starting over after learning from experince.

I am building my layout as a learning project. Anyone who may take up residence in the "Belmar Valley" does so with the understanding that it may not be around too long after I've put some modeling experince under my belt.

 

I have started over countless times. it is really hard to say good by to an old layout, but I have always learned from previous mistakes and the next layout is always better. Good luck with it and please keep us posted on progress!!
John

 

Back in my early days my layout was all sectional track just held down with track nails and every couple of months I tore it all out and changed it. After a couple of years of this I began to discover what was important to me, and what worked and what didn't. I've found those expieriences invaluable now that I'm a planning larger, permanent layout. Even with the months of work that has gone into the current plan, there are still big blank areas that will be filled in by trial and error once the ains and primary auxillary tracks are in. I use this technique mostly for industrial trackage as there are a lot more variables there (buildings, types of cars, runarounds, etc.). In conclusion, go for it! Model railroading is a process, not a destination and it will improve with every iteration.

 

If you don't have the July MR - pick it up, the One Reader's Opinion is about starting over.

 

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions so far.

I am working right now on my list of givens and druthers. Since I already have a working layout, no since in hurrying the process.

Jeff
Augsburg & Concord R.R.
(a fictional shortline in Central Illinois)
http://www.pegnsean.net/~revnjeff

 

I am beginning my first layout and am only in the stage of preparing an unfinished room for the benchwork. I am curious what 'code' of N scale track you will use when you rebuild.
I have heard that the Atlas code 55 is difficult to use with MT cars?

 

I will be using regular Atlas flex track for the new layout. Since I have a really tight budget, I will reuse as much of the old track that can possibly be saved. Also, I have a lot of Custom Line turnouts that will be used.

So far, this is the design parameters:
Room size: 14' x 8'
Era: mid-late 80's
Style: Around the room on 2 foot wide modules
Minimum Radius: 20" on main line 15 on branch
Double track mainline, with branch leading off to a town, with street trackage to at least one industry. (Love street railroading!!!!!)

Jeff

 

Jeff, mate, what a lucky man you are ! Starting over means learning out of the past. It's like the evolution. Every successor get's better. I wish I could dismantle my layout and start again. Currently my layout fits in a 13x15ft room. There's only one requirement to be met before I start again. The next layout has to be bigger. At least 30x60ft. Well, forgot to mention that I'm an N scaler. I dream of running 100+ car trains along a mountain or riverbed. Dreaming of 12+ track stage yards long enough to hold at least 80 cars trains.

So be happy to restart again and make some dreams come true. But don't forget to post pictures of your progress.

BTW if interested check out my homepage. There are lot's of pics of my layout in the picture galleries.

 

Well, here's the initial plan.

First the parameters:
14'x 8' space, N-Scale, continuous mainline running, some switching, single level for all trackage, 2 foot wide benchwork.

Here's a paper and pencil plan that I have started to develop:

Jeff
Augsburg & Concord R.R.
(a fictional shortline in Central Illinois)
http://www.pegnsean.net/~revnjeff

 

Looks pretty good so far,at least to me.

 

That's a nice start Jeff. Sarting fresh is sometimes the most exciting part! Nothing beats the first fews steps of a dream! I have a couple suggestions...1) the yard on the right needs a much longer lead track. Some call this the drill track I think. Check here for the 10 commandments of yard design: www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html 2) Also on the right wall, the inner loop seems to be just a "yard bypass" track. That really doesn't serve much use. Instead of the one loop you have, I would make it a "twice around" plan. From the "big yard" just provide access to one of the two towns at the top. The only way to reach the other town would be to go around again. 3) I can't really see, but I believe the tracks at the far left would be your interchange. It doesn't look like you have a convenient way to drop off, or pick up many cars there. You need to provide easy access to pick-up and deliver cars there, without fouling the mainline. 4) There seems to be a lot of tangent track. I would put in some gentle curves here and there. 5) You seem to have enough room for 7 towns (2 on the right, 2 on the left, 2 on top, and one on the bottom). I would add a couple spurs and industries in each town to give the railroad a purpose. You're going to have a heck of a layout! Like Sandro said, take lots of pictures!

 

Thanks for the comments Pete.

First thing, the "inner loop" is actually the main line, which forms a continuous loop. This is needed when I am running trains especially for little ones my wife babysits. (Kids want to see trains in motion, not switching)

Second, if I change the yard lead curves to 15 inch diameter, I could lengthen the right most track some.

Third, bottom left track is interchange track, runs across bottom of layout, and exits on lower right.

One concern with "twice around" is that I have had lots of trouble with grades. This layout is designed to have all track on one level. I may use cookie cutter style for track, giving me options of lower then track level scenery.

Also, the lift out section will probably be sceniced as a bridge over a river, maybe the approaches to the bridge will be on the lift out. Not sure yet on that one.

Jeff

 

If you change the yard ladder so the shortest tracks are on the far left side this will allow you to ease the curves a bit and get a longer yard - but the length of the yard is not as much as an issue as having a lead or drill track. a separate track will let you keep a track open in the yard to let trains through.

If you double track the bottom side - and eliminate the crossing in the upper right you will end up with a twice around mainline and more room for the yard lead (you could also curve the yard slightly.)

 

I thought about a double track main, but discarded the idea...maybe I need to rethink it. I don't want a spaghetti bowl of track. One nice thing in N-Scale is that you can have lots of scenery in a little space. I don't want to cancel that with too much track.

The seeminly "second main" is supposed to be a branch line that handles the industries which will be located on the left side of the plan, as well as pass through the town(s) on the top of the plan. One scene I really like is street trackage. I haven't figured out how yet, but the branch will have to run down the middle of the street to get to the industry (Flour mill) in the town. THere might even be space for more industry.

I appreciate the comments, as it helps me plan and replan.

My next step is to get some butcher paper, really big sheets, to make a full size track plan. There has been suggestions made that the industry lead on the left is too short and the yard lead on the right is also too short. (But the right yard was going to be more visible staging than a yard.)

Jeff