I saw some used GP20s in the Borg scheme at my LHS, and thought about buying them to turn into MILW GP20s, but then I remembered that lots of Milwaukee's GP20s were re-builds of GP9s. I have been looking at some side by side comparisons, and it seems that the differences are enough that it might make more sense to just get some GP9s and modify those if I want to make MILW GP20 locomotives. Am I correct in this? I see that the "stock" GP20 has a tapered nose and different fans than the "rebuild" version. Also, I know that one of them (955?) had a GP35 cab instead of the curved top GP9 cabs that the others had.
I bought a collection a while back and in it I found a jackpot! The guy was a kitbasher. What he did was take a LL GP 20 chasis and sill plate. You will need the LL chasis as it is already made for the low nose. An Atlas chasis you will more than likely have to file or mill or something to cut the chasis to make the low nose fit. He then took a Atlas GP 9 shell and used the long hood for the body. The cab is a SD 24 low nose cab. I just have to bash the low nose and install the air filter housing. I am sure there are also other things that I will find once I start examining MILW GP 20 photos.
Adam- Just to clarify, ALL the rebuilds to "GP20" specs were from GP9 units owned. Some folks trip over louver counting and think otherwise. The MILW added louvers in this process, which fools some folks. And, some early units differed a bit such as number boards, as they changed a few ideas later as things progressed. Boxcab E50
I have seen photos of numberboards located above the windshield and have also seen numberboards/headlights mounted in the top of the low nose. I prefer the first one as the second one to me just looks completley wierd.
Ken, Looking at photos of MILW GP20s versus GP20s owned by other roads it seems that there are some substantial differences. The MILW ones are all essentially the same, but I think the GP20 designation here is more of a spec.
To deviate just slightly, the Soo Line had GP9s that were wrecked and rebuilt with GP20 low noses. Soo 2911, 413 and 2403. These units were not GP20s, they were still GP9s. They ended up in service with Milw. units after the merger.
I haven't made any Milwaukee Chopnose GP's yet, but I've done a bunch of Montana rail link GP9's. in N scale the best starting point is the LL GP18 from the newest run.......if you aren't a rivet counter, the long hood is close to a phase 3 GP9 ........much closer than the GP20. The 18 also has the correct fuel/air tank combination. If you want an earlier phase, an Atlas GP9 long hood will fit. For cabs, you can use an SD24 cab (round profile) or GP35 cab (angled profile) and an SD24 low short hood.The major mod is shortening the leads on the front LED for the headlight. I made a bunch of units using older run low nose GP 18's which had the low nose already......you just swap on the correct long hood (Atlas), but they don't run as nice as the newer units. If you use a GP20, you need to trim a little off the top of the frame at the front to fit the correct hood. I made one unit this way and made a TT version, since the air tanks were missing. The differences in numberboard locations comes from how the modifications were done........ the ones with the numberboards on the nose were done by cutting down the high hoods and modifying the original high nose cabs, The others were done by replacing the original cabs and hoods (or more extensive mods to the originals)
It was more of a spec. I was just noting some of the real spotting differences. As I'd mentioned earlier, such as the nose number boards, which shows some of alterations in direction they made during the rebuild program.
If I remember correctly, the Milwaukee "GP20" units were rebuilds of the GP9's. They received new prime movers and upgraded electrical equipment that made them concurrent mechanically with the than new GP30's. EMD GP20's were turbocharged from the begining, as they came about as a result of ATSF and UP wanting higher horsepower units than the normally aspirated GP18's. That is what I think..and as I just started my 42nd orbit, my mind may be fuzzy on the details. So, there would be many differences between a stock GP20 (ala La Grange) and a Milwaukee GP20, from the roof top fan arrangement to the turbo blister on the brakemans side behind the hood (unless it was an NYC unit that was not turbo). As for the hoods, the only one I know of that was completely replaced was a unit that was wrecked. The early rebuilds had their noses chopped and kept the number boards in their original location, hence they sat low on the nose after the rebuild. Later rebuilds had a number board installed on the front top of the cab per "normal" pratice. -Mark
All fifty four of them, as part of that particular capital rebuild program. The Milw GP30 engines were delivered in 1965. The first GP20 (GP20m) outshopped was mid-1969. The latter were 2000hp, versus 2250 of a GP30. I don't even remember 42 any more..... Outward appearances, excepting chopped nose, remained mostly unchanged. There were a couple of tiny things such as a few louvers. (It's these which fool some folks who don't dig for facts, into believing MILW had GP7 units.) The early group shopped did not come out with external air filter yokes. Those were a retro-fit. The second group came out with them already done. Boxcab E50
What you say is also my understanding. One of them, I understand, was outfitted with a GP35 cab at the re-building. Maybe the previous cab was too damaged to re-use? I can't remember which one. I'll have to look that one up. Adam
