SOU Southern Railway fans, merger dates?

BoxcabE50 Jul 17, 2022

  1. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Am still looking for any information about Southern predecessor companies, or subsidiaries, for when their operations were absorbed into SRS.

    Also, I was told that the CNO&TP may actually still exist as an operating NS subsidiary, not just a paper corporation. Can anyone confirm?
     
  2. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I the CNO&TP is owned by the City of Cincinatti and leased to NS. This website shows the dozens of older lines folded into SOU:
    http://southern.railfan.net/companies.html

    Good information here too: https://www.american-rails.com/southern.html
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    The biggest problem I find is dates for when many of those subsidiaries were merged/absorbed. I am amazed how little of that information seems to be out there, so the curious might find it.
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    So far, this is all I am able to develop in the way of information. And the sources so minimal or sketchy that I cannot be 100% positive:

    ALABAMA, GREAT SOUTHERN RR:

    Controlled by Southern RY subsidiary Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas Pacific RY during December of 1954. Absorbed into Southern RY January 31, 1969.

    CINCINNATI, NEW ORLEANS & TEXAS PACIFIC RY:

    Owned by the City of Cincinnati, Ohio. Leased to Southern RY. (SRS is part of now part of Norfolk Southern Corporation. Lease was transferred to NS Corp.) Operations of CNO&TP were absorbed by SRS on January 31, 1969.
     
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  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Further SRS bits and pieces. More info needed on some of these:

    ATLANTIC AND EAST CAROLINA RY:

    Control by Southern RY in 1950. Absorbed?


    ATLANTIC AND NORTH CAROLINA RR:

    Leased during 1939, by Atlantic & East Carolina RY. Operations absorbed???


    ATLANTIC & YADKIN RY:

    Merged into Southern RY in 1950.


    CAROLINA & NORTHWESTERN RY:

    Control by the original Norfolk Southern RY on January 1, 1974. Merged into Southern RY on June 1, 1988.


    CENTRAL OF GEORGIA RY:

    Controlling interest sold to Southern RY by St.Louis-San Francisco via court order beginning August, 1960, until sale completed June, 1963. Absorbed?


    GEORGIA, SOUTHERN & FLORIDA RY:

    Merged into Norfolk Southern RY on February 5, 1994.


    INTERSTATE RR:

    Southern RY subsidiary by stock acquisition February 16, 1961. Operated independently using IRR, then SRS forms. Merged into Norfolk Southern Corp on October 31, 1985.


    KENTUCKY & INDIANA TERMINAL RR:

    Merged into Southern RY during December, 1981.


    LIVE OAK, PERRY & SOUTH GEORGIA RY:

    Acquired and merged into Norfolk Southern, 1994.
    (Note: I am also finding conflicting information this operation first went into Georgia, Southern & Florida, before GS&F went to NS Corp.)


    NORFOLK SOUTHERN RY:

    This was the original RR of such name. Absorbed into Southern RY on January 1, 1974.


    NORFOLK SOUTHERN RY (NORFOLK SOUTHERN CORPORATION):

    Second company by this name. Merger of Southern RY and the Norfolk & Western RY on June 1, 1982.
     
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  6. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Your research is bearing fruit. I have a number of books on the SOU, but none with a deep dive history with that kind of detail.
     
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  7. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    The list above barely scratches the number of companies which should have gone into SRS, or NS Corp, so there is a task ahead. Yikes! It took some hours to come up with just those few, and I still need to conform some, or find month and day. What have I done to myself???
     
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  8. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Is this project to better reference your collection of railroad documents or is it to satisfy a simple curiosity? It's fun to go down the rabbit hole when things like this attract us, but as you said, our interests can spiral out of control. With me, it's often an obscure branchline or long abandoned line segment that snatches my attention.
     
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Both. To be certain everything is correctly filed, according to history. Also, I enjoy learning about many and various railroads. This is a good way to do so, by looking for myself. It can definitely be a rabbit hole! Yikes! Not sure what to call it. Brainercise? Ha ha....
     
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  10. mmi16

    mmi16 TrainBoard Member

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    I believe CNO&TP is owned by the City of Cincinnati, OH
     
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  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It is, as I have learned. Somewhere in there is a company named Cincinnati Southern. Not clear on exactly how it is all structured, but somehow is was that company which actually leased the CNO&TP, to Southern RY.
     
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  12. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hi Boxcab,
    Not sure how you would really classify operations absorbed by SRS in this case as Southern had operated the CNO&TP since 1894 when Samuel Spencer brought it under control of the Southern. As for the Cincinnati Southern, it's almost as if they are the same thing as the CN)&TP. Seems like some "creative" structuring was used to work within the laws and regulations back in the day.

    You can find some interesting info on the CS in this book you can download. You might find this site interesting as it has many books available that the copyrights have expired on.
    https://archive.org/details/cincinnatisouth00hallgoog

    And another line that was part of the SRS that I didn't see in your list (or maybe I missed it) is the TAG - Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia RR
     
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  13. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Excellent @BNSF FAN (y) Even as a former resident of AL, I'd completely forgotten about the TA&G.
     
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  14. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Oh, have another one for the list. Chattanooga Traction Company. Acquired by the Southern in 1936 and was transferred to the CNO&TP in 1969.
     
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  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I also forgot about them. I do have a few train orders from that company.

    So, that and a couple of others:

    TENNESSEE RR:

    Merged into Southern RY on August 1, 1973.


    TENNESSEE, ALABAMA & GEORGIA RY:

    Absorbed into Southern RY on November 1, 1971.


    TENNESSEE CENTRAL RY:

    Ceased operation on August 31, 1968. Sold off as follows:
    Hopkinsville, KY.- Nashville, TN., to Illinois Central RR.
    Nashville, TN.- Crossville, TN., to Louisville & Nashville RR.
    Crossville, TN.-Harriman, TN., to Southern RY.
     
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  16. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Did you include the Savannah & Atlanta? Don't have any info to add on them for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  17. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is what I have on the S&A:

    Stock controlled by Central of Georgia RY on August 22, 1951. Absorbed into C of G on December 31, 1963.
     
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  18. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Cool. It's really amazing how many companies ended up combined into the Southern Railway.

    One thing that I always found interesting is that most of them at some point had their diesel fleet in Southern's paint scheme but still lettered for the original road like this Savannah & Atlanta unit

    IMG_0456.JPG
     
  19. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I think it's cool that NS chose to do that with their S&A Heritage Unit [02/09/2018, Columbia, SC]

    2018-02-09 002 NS 1065 Savannah & Atlanta HU Columbia SC - for upload.jpg
     
  20. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I remember when I was a young teen living in Chicago looking at a Rand McNally atlas in the school library and seeing a "C&NW" railroad in the Carolinas and being totally confused. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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