Yikes. I need a job, and I like railroads, so this morning I went to test for a Train Service (conductor) position for Hinkle, Oregon. The first two hours involved describing the job and answering questions. Basically, I'd be filling in where ever they needed me. It sounded like it would be mostly working in the yard, but could involve working on locals and on the road. I'd be on call 24/7, and they mean every single day. No vacation for the first two years, and even once I got a vacation they would tell me when to take it. Because UP is so shorthanded, they told me I should expect to work 8 hours on, 8 hours off. The training period is 14 weeks, with the first three weeks being paid at minimum wage. On average, a Train Service person makes $25-30K in their first year. And they said that there would be almost no chance of transferring to another job or another location for the next five years. It's definetely a single man's job, and I'd rather not become single. I withdrew my application, but it was nice to know what they're all about. By withdrawling my application, I'm eligible to apply again. If I had continued the testing I would not be able to apply for Train Service for the next six months. For anyone who might still be interested, the testing involved a reading comprehension test, a physical agility test (grip strength, sit-ups, and another test that I forget), and then an interview in the afternoon. If I had been hired, I would have known by 8:00 tonight. In that case I would have had to return tomorrow morning to fill out some paperwork, and then return again next week for a drug test. They claim to expect to fill a lot of vacancies in the next few months, so check their website daily if this sounds like your kind of job. I'll be checking for positions with more stable hours.
Yup. They'll fill the current vacancies. But what was not said, is that more will immediately open. For what they expect of a potential employee, versus the compensation for not having a life, ............ Well, leadership likes to fool themselves! If they ever stop hiring bean counters, and promote internally up to management, then perhaps they'll re-learn how to actually run a railroad. I exchange e-mails daily with train service people from this company. The discontent and frustration over track conditions, power conditions and shortages, mis-assigned power, crewing problems, and more, is growing and growing. Someone in Omaha has forgotten that employees can't do the task without the tools! Boxcab E50
My father has worked for a large railroad (one of the big 4) for something like 30+ years. Based on his tenure there, I'm sure it was a good job, but in the last couple of years, especially after his railroad's merger with another major railroad that I won't mention here, he has had nothing good to say about working for the railroad. He's so ready to retire. Much of what he does these days is complain about working for that damned railroad. I feel really bad for him but I'm happy that he is real close to retirement. I try not to let all of the negative things he says about working for a railroad bother me. It is my believe that any job in this world can wear you down. In this life I've learned a few lessons about mixing business with pleasure, and ruining the pleasure in the process. I happen to be an Engineer (the Systems kind) but for reasons stated earlier in this post, I will probably never work for the railroad, at least, not as a train operator or anything that has to do with trains. I would be afraid of ruining my appreciation of trains because they would turn into my work. Thank you for the insight
Jason, you are right about the job ruinning the hobby. Mike, good choice, family over career. Ken, the bean counters have been goofing up the UP since the UP, MP and WP merger. As for the hiring of conductors, Mike was right on. A few more facts though. Unless there has been a new union contract, the first year has no vacation. The time worked the first year goes for earning the vacation the second year. This late in the year, you won’t work enough to get a vacation next year. If you hired out in before July, then you should get a vacation next year. As for when you take it, it goes on seniority. The longer you’ve been there, the better choices you have for your vacation. The UP can ask you to not take it, but they have to pay you for it. Yes, you will be on call 24/7, 365 days a year. It’s called an extra board. But, don’t be surprised to get furloughed for a couple months a year for the next 10 years. If you do get furloughed, there are other places on the system you can go work. It may mean a new seniority date, but when you can hold the terminal you hired out you can go back and keep your original date. Also, once you hire out, your vacation date is established and no matter where you go, you should be able to take it with you. I kept my date from train service, so when I went to engine service, I had my full three weeks and didn’t have to start over. Unless, you are single, or need the medical benefits hiring out on today’s railroads is a rough way to earn a living. Railroad management has forgotten this is a service industry. Like Ken said, “employees need the tools to do their job!” I’ve seen many changes over the last 24 years. I expect to see many more, and none for the better. Right now, you will notice that there seem to be a lot more wrecks and accidents now than six months ago. It isn’t a coincidence. The railroads are behind in their hiring and have been that way for a long time. Fatigue is a major factor in these incidents. What bothers me, is the management’s inability to see or except the reasons for the fatigue. That being said, I will be the first to admit I like my job. I also can separate my interests and hobby from the job. My hobby is modeling the WP in the seventies, quiet a bit removed from railroading today. The railroad has been a good job for me. I was able to spend my time in the yard switching. That allowed me to be home and have a family. I also was able to put my wife through school to get her education. I don’t foresee this for the new hires. Yard jobs are not as well paying as road jobs and they are getting fewer in number as the years progress. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I can give the good the bad and the ugly about this job. Greg Elems 10 years as a brakeman 14 years as an engineer [ 02. October 2003, 06:01: Message edited by: Greg Elems ]
I have had family and friends bug me for years an years about going to work for the railroad. I too agree it would kill my passion for trains, let alone it is a dangerous job and I thank God I ended up with a civil servant job with the City. And, after reading Mike's post here, I can't imagine anyone wanting to commit at least 2 years of service under a horrible schedule, no vacation, bad money, and hard work with the chance of being laid off (for many more years to come after that!) hanging over my head. Joining the army for 4 years and going to some God forsaken place where the temps are 130 degrees and sand gets into your pores sounds better. Fortunately I am too old for both. I don't know how old you are Mike, but take every civil service test available and go to any and every job interview they call you for. When you get a gov job, you can always transfer somewhere else that may suit your needs better. Don't get me wrong here as I have the utmost respect for railroaders, and I sure don't know how you guys and gals do it. I guess my cujones are not that big after all. When you seerailfans like myself trackside, we aren't just admiring those big old engines and long trains thundering by, we are admiring the people who make them run day after day. God Bless you all and good luck to you Mike.
hey Mike I was just wondering Do you have any post-seconday education? I ask this because I am interested in railroading as a career, and am debating on what to major in college next fall. Thanks.
Mike, I have been around the railroad for many years with my family and friends working for different companies. I tried several times to start my career with the railroad but my timing was always off for one reason or another. After I moved to the Northwest I again applied for a position with the BNSF. I went and sat for the tests and passed them all. I was sent a letter that told me that I had done well but they could not offer me a job at this time. I was 51 at that time and figured it was because of my age. I was very impressed with the way BNSF handeled the hiring. It was done on the property in Seattle in a very nice office and the HR person had all the answers as to when the class would start and traiing pay and so on. A month or so ago a friend of mine emailed me about jobs with the UP. I signed up and got invited to an interview. The man who did the intervied was probally the same old coot that you had in Hinkle. He was very full of himself and made sure everyone knew it. He talked for almost 4 hours about how bad things were on the UP. How they had to do more with less and everything else I am sure you heard. Well I have to tell you all, I was not impressed with the UP. I was not called for a job and I am glad. I have been unemployed for almost a year and I hope to fine something soon. But if I had been called for the paperwork and the rest of the process I would have turned it down. The jerks and dolts in the home office don't know one thing about running a railroad and it showes with the people they send around to do the interviews. These people did not know when or where the next class would start and I got the impression they really did not care. The UP is bleeding people and I now know why. Mike, if you are going to spend some years on the railroad do it with the BNSF. The problems with being cut off and no vacation the first year and working the extra board will be the same, but I think the BNSF will take better care of you the the UP could ever think about doing. Thats my two cents. Shannon WP LIVES [ 03. October 2003, 04:31: Message edited by: Shannon ]
Actually, you would be better off getting hired by a shortline railroad. I've talked to people from the BNSF, CSX and NS. They all tell the same things I experience on the UP. On the other hand, I've talked to people on shortlines that have an entirely different attitude. I think even Amtrak would be a better place to work. I had a contact that hired out on the CP and they seemed to do better by and for their employees. Greg
To someone from across the pond, this is a fascinating insight into modern railroading. Now we have many different train operating companies, I am sure there are some of the same problems here.
Hey guys~ Thanks for the words of support. Johnny Trains, it's funny you mention civil service. I'm 23, and I've spent the last 7 years preparing myself for a career in law enforcement. I haven't given up on that entirely, but the job market in Oregon is awful, and cities and counties just aren't willing to spend the money to train new officers. The few LE jobs available are going to guys that are already certified. Anyway, I certainly agree with you that we admire the railroaders that make it all happen. Pat, I do have a BA in Law Enforcement. The train service position I applied for required two years of full-time work experience after high school OR an associates (or higher) degree. Although my degree has nothing to do with railroading, the fact that I have a degree qualified me for the job. I wouldn't know what kind of college to suggest to you in order to get hired by a railroad, but I do know a handful of community colleges throughout the country offer AA's in railroad operations. I'd look into that if you're serious about this as a career. Shannon, as my avatar suggests, I've always been more impressed by BNSF than UP. In addition to my UP application, I've also applied for a carman position with BNSF in Seattle. I haven't heard back about that, and I'm not really expecting to. I'm not really qualified for it, or most jobs on a railroad. If I was single, I probably would be more interested in being a conductor, and preferably for BNSF. But I can't commit to a schedule like that no matter what railroad it is. As for the job ruining my hobby, I have no time, money, or talent to be a model railroader (although I still make occasional futile attempts). My hobby mainly involves taking pictures of the real thing, so working for the railroad probably would have only helped that. But I haven't had a burning desire to be a railroader, and I probably wouldn't make a career out of it even if I was hired. I mainly applied because I need a job right now. The good news is I interviewed this morning for a Security Officer position at a university in Seattle. I feel good about the interview, so hopefully I won't have to worry about job hunting for much longer.
Mike - Just another perspective...I left civil service 6 years ago to go to work on the RR. After 15 years in my CS position, I was topped out in my pay class, trapped in a crummy retirement system and looking at having to work till I died after I retired to keep eating. Yes, railroading has been tough going and still is but the higher income has allowed my wife to quit work, where before we both worked and my kids were in daycare. We're proof that a family can survive the extra list if you go into it with your eyes open and are willing to work together at it. The catch is you've got to hang on thru the first few years until your seniority allows you to hang onto something else. Since you've trained in Law Enforcement, have you looked at the RR police? As with everybody, special agents are spread thin but maybe you could combine two interests into one. The big question would be, would a career in law enforcement have less demanding hours than transportation? I have a few friends in LE that spend a lot of time grousing about working swing shifts, nights, holidays etc., kind of like my schedule (or lack thereof). Chasing the bad guys can be pretty tough on a family life too. It sounds like you're looking hard at the facts so you can make an informed decision Good luck!
Mike, I know many friends who were cops here in New York. One retired after 20 years as a first grade detective and his pension is more than I make! He and several other friends retired as detectives (with 10-15 more years on the job than the one guy I just mentioned ) and went on to do security work for private industry and goverenment and on top of their pensions their saleries are still more than I make! Hope you can use your law enforcement education to become a cop or something. I also know two ex-cops that became Police Chiefs of New York area railroads. Maybe after a stint with a police department you can retire young and go onto police work in railroading. Good luck to you, as you are still a youngin' and always be careful out there! Oh, move East. The money is better!
I am thinking about an assosociate in Safety Technology then transfering to WVU for an additional two years to get a Bachelors in Industrial Safety. I'll actually end up with 2 degrees in 4 years. Will hopefully get me started. I always believed that if your really love doing something and are committed, then the work hours shouldn't be a big worry. That's what I think about railroading. Seniority will pay itself off after a few years.
