I recently filled out an order form for one of the advertisers on this site. The total was about $71.00. When I pressed for the total, with shipping, it came to about $88.00. I did not place the order. I felt that a 20% shipping charge was more than excessive. This bothered me more than the shipping charges on two pairs of MT 2004-1 couplers ordered (which I have had no success in obtaining for well over a month {order still not received, by the way}). I understand UPS ground charges by zones. However, I can not accept a $17.00 charge from somewhere in the West to New York. Is the charge based on the zones, the price, both, what the traffic will bear, a method to put the discount price back into the price of the item? What? What? What? If by zones, it gives incentive to order from a close by supplier or LHS, assuming arguendo, that one will pay the sales tax imposed by the receiving tax state as required on its tax returns. If I make an order of $500 for Unitrack, for example, will I have a shipping charge of $100? Is the box that big, the handling so difficult? If I order a few Kato Mikados, PA-PB's and a few Bachmann Consolidations and a few Atlas Shays (hopefully) will I be charged more than $100 for a box no more than 12"x12"x8" and weighing less than three pounds? In short, are there any on line suppliers, advertisers here or not, who have either reasonable or negotiable shipping and handling charges?
I believe that this is the latest form of ripoff. I ordered a gift certificate for my son-in-law, for 50 bucks, and the site I ordered it from wanted $7.95 for shipping--A PIECE OF PAPER!!! I sent them email and they finally backed down and only charged me for the postage. Challenge those guys, Fotheringill.
Actually, I think there is a simple answer to this. When you order over the Internet, the computer doesn't calculate shipping based on weight; it's based on a flat fee determined by the number of items. It has to be pre-programmed by the seller. They have no way of knowing how much a package, containing a lot of small items, is going to weigh. I remember reading a post by Wig-Wag, Inc., stating that he doesn't use an online-ordering system, just for that reason. Once the package is filled, it's fairly easy to determine how much the package is going to weigh; sometimes, even when the order is taken manually. But I don't think any ordering software can take into account the weight of an individual item, and add a bunch of those individual items together to get an accurate weight. Now, I agree that you should call in your order and challenge the shipping quote. I suspect someone taking an order will have the flexibility to adjust the shipping. Good luck! Pat
AKrrnut: BLW uses a flat rate of $6.00 or $6.95. UPS, I think. But no way they could know the weight before the package is assembled.
Whats wrong with USPS?Had over 200 parcels in the last year sent from the US (to Australia)& only one damage claim,that was paid!Pretty reasonable postage prices considering.
I sure can't speak as to what's happening here. I do know that the shopping cart systems some stores use, is an automated flat rate fee. So other shops won't use it, as they can lose on discounted items, and not charging enough for postage and insurance. I have thinned my accumulation a lot this past year. So have done a bunch of shipping. It's amazing how much a package can weigh, once you prep it to survive. Bubble wrapping, and foam peanuts, inside a box large enough to give a margin for safety in case of dropping or crushing, adds up weight. The last time I ever bought some items, it was an order for slightly over $250.00 worth of many assorted small items. They charged me $11.00 for shipping and insurance. And the postage on their package was $13.00. So they'd actually undercharged me. Boxcab E50
I don't charge shipping seperately on my products (a good percentage of which go to the US). Sometimes I think I have not allowed enough in the price to cover postage cost, but overall it works out ok. I do not believe in making money out of shipping. I use regular Royal Mail air mail service and very rarely have any problems. Just an odd package or two over the years have been damaged.
I use Chuck at www.featherrivertrains.com and have never had a problem. He charges the priority mail rate plus insurance, which is cost. On big orders it has always been cost of postage and insurance. My woo woo woo's orders were reasonable too.
Guys, If you think "Internal Server Errors", "Can't Upload Image" and "Cannot Retrieve Password" problems have me pulling my hair out, this topic will really send me around the bend because we have got loads of misinformation flying here. So, Uncle Charlie is going to explain it to you. I'm not picking on Pat, but this it just 100% totally wrong: Again, incorrect: I'm not sure what software this would be Ken but that is not the case with the *several* that I have worked with: Also, I have seen this statement on Wig-Wag-Trains web site: George is a great guy, a quality retailer, and an advertiser on this site and I encourage you to do business with him but I simply do not agree with that statement. As many of you who know me are aware, we (Wendy and I) have operated an online store for a number of years. I have also been exposed to quite a few different software packages that drive so-called "shopping cart" systems and all of them that I have ever seen pretty much work the same way. I have also set up a number of stores and been a speaker at seminars about online retaining. I don't know why people think that these can't calculate the proper shipping weight but they can do it easily. They calculate the price and they can calculate shipping. "Item A" has a price of $5.00 and a shipping weight of .75 pounds. Order two of them and you have $10 cost and 1.5 pounds of shipping. Each product on your store has a price and it has a shipping weight. On all of the popular shopping cart platforms you can see the shipping weight and options before you place your order. The final weight of the box is calculated on the fly just like the price. I am not sure why people do not know this?!? We live in a very rural area so on our store, we only offer UPS Ground (Residential) and USPS Priority Mail. FedEx is not as easy for us to do as they have no local office or depot so we do not offer that. We used to offer UPS Business but all of our residential customers selected "Business" (in spite of us asking them not to do it) as it is a lower rate and we would get burned on charges so we took that off. USPS Priority Mail: Shipping is based on weight and Zip Code. We ship from 04619 so it computes based on weight from our Zip Code to yours and renders an exact price as it would at the post office. UPS: When you order and select UPS shipping, it takes the weight of the package, the vendor's Zip Code, and your Zip Code and automatically goes to the UPS web site and gets the shipping rate from them and enters it on the order form. That is how our store works and InternetTrains.com uses the same platform as our store so I assume it is the same. Example:, We sell tea on our site: http://www.downeasttea.com/natflavblact.html - Those weigh 1.1 pounds each and if you order 3, you are going to get charged for 3.3 pounds of shipping. If you select UPS Ground, our store will go to UPS web site automatically and ask them how much 3.3 pounds is UPS Ground from 04619 to your Zip Code and put that shipping weight on the form automatically. This all takes place in a split second and you don't even realize it. If you select USPS Priority Mail as the shipping method, it computes 3.3 pounds from 04619 to your Zip Code based on a pre-defined pricing table. From our store... Setting an items weight: Configuring USPS Priority Mail shipping, an example from a huge table containing Zip Codes on the entire United States: We LOSE MONEY on shipping and that is why it makes me so mad when people complain. It is certainly fair to add the weight (and cost) of the box and shipping materials. We do not do that in order to hold customer costs down but it is fair to do. Believe me folks, when you go to Wal-Mart and buy something, you are paying for the item, the packaging, the trucking of it to the store, the lights to shine on it and the clerks time to ring it up. Shipping from California to New York is expensive Mark. If you felt that the shipping rate charged by InternetTrains.com was too high you should just call them and inquire about it. They are fair and honest I can assure you. I am not saying that some people don't add profit into shipping, we do not and I believe all of our advertisers to be honest. As I just said, if you think shipping is too much, just ask them if they can get it to you cheaper. I ran into something like Jim where it cost $7.50 to ship a gift certificate and that is just someone trying to profit for packing an envelope. Last week on our store we got an order from someone for an item that weighs exactly a pound. The weight of the box and packaging materials pushes it well over a pound but we charge 1 pound and that is what the store computes the shipping weight on that to be. So, UPS said that was $7.80 based on one pound and it would have probably cost us $9.10 (based on past experience). In spite of the fact that it shows the customer the shipping cost before entering their credit card number, they ordered anyway. 10 minutes after the order was placed, an e-mail shoots through that says, CANCEL MY ORDER! I AM NOT PAYING YOU $7.80 TO SHIP A ONE POUND PACKAGE! FORGET IT YOU THEIF! Well, first they were not paying us, they were paying UPS. Plus, we were going to lose over a dollar in shipping. So, that is what retailers are up against - high shipping costs and customers who do not want to pay it. If you want the items, bite the bullet and pay the shipping costs. On a related note, I noticed that George at Wig-Wag says credit card processing for online orders is higher. I am not doubting his word on that because I do not know his situation but in our case it is cheaper as it is done by an automated process and it costs the bank less so they charge us a lower fee. Once again, I am not trying to pick on anyone but I deal with this stuff everyday and people that think we are trying to steal from them. If you don't think that the shipping cost is right, CALL THE VENDOR. Ok, I feel better now. *Whew!* Charlie [ 23. November 2004, 12:51: Message edited by: E-8 ]
I have totally agree with Charlie. He and I have been playing this game for a number of years. I myself have several online businesses across several different store platforms. Shipping rates and charges are a double edged sword for sure. We stock some of our products, and some are drop shipped from the manufacturer, or distributor. We ALWAYS loose our shirt on the drop ship items because we are not buying in volume, we are not stocking, picking, packing, or labeling the item (not to mention the physical cost and costs of the supplies). This cost all gets passed on tot he retailer. Sometime there is even and additional couple bucks of drop ship fees added. For instance, one of our businesses works with over 27 outside vendors that drop ship. One of them charges us a flat $9.00 minimum for shipping on ANY order. So... if it is a $100 item... we are good. But a customer in the same town as the vendor could order a $1.50 item... and we have to pay them $9.00 to ship it to our customer. The shipping rate tables on all our stores works just as Charlie describes. Or a slight variation on the same principal. Problem is... on drop shipping it will not automatically select the "Origin" zip code when you are working with a number of different out-sourcing points. So... if it doesn't look right... then your best bet is to call them for clarification. Sometimes the tables are not flexible enough to totally compensate for all the different variables. Just my 2 cents worth!
Remember that out of state purchases have no sales tax. I always take this into consideration, and it helps me feel better about the shipping charges. Although that could change. Can you imagine how people will complain when they have to pay shipping and tax?!
The State of Maine now wants us to declare on our income taxes each April how much money we saved on out-of-state purchases and pay the taxes to the state. There is a box for that right on the tax form for you to declare and pay. I don't think so... Charlie
I have ordered from Alan several times over the last 2 years .. and have never had a problem getting my stuff from him .. I also like the idea of a flat rate price when I order from his web site .. I know exactly what it will cost me .. without having to account for shipping ..
The sovereign State of New York also has a box on your personal income tax return to declare all internet purchases and add sales tax. I will try to duplicate my order and take a screen shot and post the same since I personally didn't believe my eyes either the first time I saw it.
I just looked at InternetTrains.com's shipping policies. They do charge flat rate shipping on UPS Ground orders - which at $7.95 is a bargain for you! If the shipping did not compute correctly, give them a shout. I can assure you from personal dealings that they are easy to work with. Charlie
For grins I went out to the UPS Site to see what a 10 lb package worth ~$100 would cost to ship from NY to CA and it came up $14.10. This is just there shipping cost so there is still the Packaging and Handling of the Store to add on. That means the Box, Tape, Packing, and $$$/HR of having someone put this together has a value that needs added into the overall Shipping charges. BTY, that was the cheapest method as doing this by Air could by as much as $107 in just UPS charges. I think UPS is the best method $$$ wise when you stay within a Zone and it gets higher as more Zones are crossed. USPS is a flat rate so if it's a coast to coast shipment they tend to be the best method $$$ wise but normally not for sending a package next door. Other methods other prices; but, it's not worth a Store's efforts to search for the cheapest method by each indivigual sale so they tend to use just one service or maybe let you pick between a few. I have before spent more on Shipping than the value of the item becuase it was a small item being shipped from halfway around the world. Some Stores loss money in these areas just to get your business while others bury into the price of the items. Don't forget, the Price of "Oil" is part of these cost too. Not just in Shipping but in the Manfacturing of the products and shipping materials.
Yes and no. Check your state income tax form for "Use Tax"; it's effectively state and local sales tax on items purchased outside your local jurisdiction where you did not already pay sales tax. I maintain the point of sale system for a retail company (although not a model railroad business) that has been in business for just over 25 years now. We don't collect sales tax on purchases that are shipped to other jurisdictions, we leave it to the customer to file use tax in the customer's jurisdiction. Adding functionality in our software to calculate and collect the correct sales tax for every jurisdiction would be an absolutely enormous expense; just think about how much data you would have to keep on what the different rates are around the country and you start to get an idea of the scope of the problem. This is a standard practice in the retail industry. Leaving the use tax as a responsibility of the purchaser saves the seller the time and paperwork in filing sales taxes in every jurisdiction that exists in the US (state, county, even some cities and boroughs). Now when we think about international shipments, the problems of collecting sales tax are only compounded. Companies that spend $3m or more on IT budgets every year may be able to afford the paperwork, but the great overwhelming majority of companies cannot afford to file in every jurisdiction. Granted, some jurisdictions stipulate that purchases totaling under a certain amount are exempt from use tax, but the amounts can vary widely by jurisdiction (I've seen this threshhold as low as $50). Unless you are advised otherwise by your legal professionals, you are expected to file use tax for items that you purchase outside your jurisdiction. Ask your lawyer about use tax before you assert that you never have to pay sales tax on items shipped to you from out of state.
It also depends on the size of the box, etc. I can tell you, as a person that has shipped literally thousands of packages, that there are times when USPS Priority Mail is cheaper than UPS and vice versa. The heavier it gets, the better UPS is. When we ship large wreaths the box that we use is not oversize to the US Posal Service but it is to UPS. We ship overseas sometimes, we use Canada Post as well since we live on the border, we have many variables. We try to keep the shipping cost down as much as possible. If you are going to order anything online and you think that the cost is too high, just go to the merchant and talk to them. Most don't want to lose the sale and will give you the best deal they can. There are some hucksters areound and you should be able to spot them. A reputable company like InternetTrains.com states their policy right on their web site and that helps. We have an extensive shipping policy statement on our web site as well: http://www.balsamfircreations.com/shipratex.html in order to try and let people know that we are not trying to cheat them. Charlie
Only on one pound Darren. After that it is based on Zip and is complex. I have a multi-page document that lets me compute by Zip to various places. See my screenshot in my original post. Charlie
