The April 2010 Railroad Model Craftsman has a nice article on using Google Sketchup to transform oblique-angle photos to planview sketches in scale. It's rather similar to what I'm doing using Google Earth and photoshop. In this case what I'm doing is relatively simple (trying to get a front plan view in scale from an oblique historic postcard), the Sketchup example is really nice for calculating interlocking gables and rooflines for a full model. The de-keystoning feature of photoshop though is really cool where like in this case, I need to figure a way to calculate window sizes, spacing, and keep everything in proportion. It's a lot more detailed than an outline plan. Working together; putting photoshop views on a Google Sketchup plan, yeah, I can see how that would be the best of both. I'm just learning sketchup.
Little bit of progress this week. To get the look of a thick brick wall, with the windows inset inside of it, I built up the inside with strips of .040x.040 Evergreen styrene. That sets the outside edge of the frames about even with the back thickness of the wall, which is about a scale 9". I'm just eyeballing this stuff, but it looks right to me: Note that the windows are fit on the inside, rather than the outside, to get the look. Tichy and Grandt windows are both detailed as well on the inside or the outside with full drop frames, etc., so it works fine. Old photos of the Commercial show a lot of brick cornice detail that doesn't show later. I never heard of a building haveing stuff like that either covered or chipped off, but the newer photos show some definite remnants. There's a real 'step down' under the windows, and a brick ridge across that. It looks like this had something to do with the original balcony. There's a brick ridge across the window tops. There's a definite ridge across the entire building, more defined, between the window edge and the top cornice. So for those I'm using scraps of old H&R HO brick sheet, which runs about .020 thick. Those front top windows, and the top cornice detail with the semi-circular center piece with the center 'eyeball', are kind of the signatures of the building. We'll work on the top cornice next, then separate the lower walls where I have already scored them.
The top cornice....not much detail, just impression. I don't think it was brick... but it sure was big and distinctive. I used Evergreen .020 styrene strip for the first level, with a chunk of .020 styrene cut and sanded for the center 'eye'. The center 'eyeball', well, I still can't figure out what that thing was. I settled for a straight pin head. Second layer of the cornice was another buildup of Evergreen styrene, this time .040 thick and laminated to the first. The eyeball hole was countersunk so that only half of the head shows.
I dunno how I missed this thread, but until now I did. Another Randgust masterpiece in the making! EXCELLENT work, Randy!
I have seen the same type cornice used to outline a BIG clock on the outside of some older buildings. The Commercial Hotel was more or less acrross the street from the Flagstaff depot....and more or less the center of downtown at the time....just makes me wonder...hmmmm.
Well, I'm still wondering. The fact that it burned to the ground helps, as there are few chances anybody can argue with me. The only thing that conflicts with that is a shot of the fire, with smoke pouring out of the 'eye'. Or maybe not. Vent? I've studied every photo from every angle I can, sure looks like a round Greek-style decoration. The original 1915 Flagstaff Hotel shot shows another higher level of cornice with something over top of it that looks like a wild balcony, just waiting for Teddy Roosevelt to be photographed on it, that was taken off before the 1940's shots. The entire top of the building was simplified. There's one 1940's postcard angle that clearly shows that round 'eye' feature stuck OUT, not IN. But that 1975 fire shot looks like it was a hole. You'll always make mistakes, sometimes awful, doing this kind of modeling. I decide not to stress over it. And as you'll see when I hack out about six feet of height on the buildings I already finished, don't get stuck on fixing something later if it can be done.
Randy, great work. You got me excited about something I don't even model! But, the " ball" just didn't feel right architecturally, should be a vent of some sort, not quite large enough for a clock. The smoke pouring out of the hole confirmed it for me, and then! I found a photo on the Arizona History Project site showing the grill in detail. I don't know how to do links with my new iPad yet, but if you google the "New Commercial Hotel" you should find it. Love this stuff! Regards, Otto K.
:tb-coolrobably right about the vent.... something like this perhaps ? Ahhhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaa correct Cajonpassfan was.... Commercial Hotel
Wow, thank you thank you thank you! That's by far the best 'front shot' of the building yet, particularly the low floors. That also explains the 'before and after' difference of the building, minus the balconies, top cornice detail, etc. I'm taking that eyeball back out, no problem. Great time to do it. But what is really nice is that I'm just now trying to figure out the ground level details and that's a great shot to use.
Cajonpassfan gets the credit...I just posted the link for him...:thumbs_up: Just dont forget the barber shop behind that car :tb-wink:
Randy, maybe you already know, but another great resource is the Northern Arizona University Cline Library, special collections. Great views of Flag and Santa Fe Avenue.... Otto
When I google-searched for the Commercial Hotel, the NAU library site came right up with pictures of the fire - the ones that I have on the front of the thread. But I never found that brochure shot, which is a game-changer here, just excellent. I'll have to search that site more carefully. You can kind of see between the people in the 1975 fire shots on a lot of misc. detail and painting and tiling that changed across that front. The Petley postcards are mostly no later than about 1960, generally run about 1948-1960. I've got about a ten-year gap in there that's missing.
Well, I found another interesting alley to wander into, thanks (?) to you guys. I haven't been able to tell what other business had the bright orange-lettered sign on the ground floor right of the Hotel. You can see orange letters in the fire shots but you can't read them. Ugh. So, figuring that they were burned out, they probably would have been mentioned in the fire story... so off I go to the online newspaper archives to try to get that company name. I have no idea if it was still a barbershop, kinda doubt it, but whatever it was the sign is noticeable and should be on the model. I'll repost that fire picture link, notice the orange letters on the front right? On the checkerboard tiles where the barbershop was? http://archive.library.nau.edu/cgi-..."Commercial Hotel"&REC=4&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 Notice that the curved-top ground floor windows visible in that brochure shot are covered now. And that there was a rather patched-odd combination of tiles, paint, and who-knows-what across the ground floor. It's easy to get stopped cold with the lack of information...or you just blunder on and hope for the best. The fire was mentioned in the Dec. 17th 1975 paper (yup, scanned online!) and it was an arson, second floor, multiple starts. Wow. So there's a whole dark history there I didn't know either. It can't be as wild as the stories about the Monte Vista, which includes movies, movie stars, and ghost stories (apparently it is haunted)....or can it? Hmmm. More fun research. I'll distract you with this while I'm off researching..... http://www.allflagstaff.com/blogs/?pubcontentid=6359&reporttype=full What was I doing again? Oh, yeah, building a model...right..yeah... The vent idea worked great, photos soon.
OK....We (THE Wife & I) have been sitting here drinking coffee and 'studying' all the photos...here is our thoughts. In the postcard you can see the "EL P***** Cocktail LOUNGE". It is in the right corner of the Hotel where the barbershop used to be. Also in the same postcard pic...if you zoom in...the "EL P***** Cocktail LOUNGE" continues into the small building to the right of the Hotel. The orange checkerboard front is the same. They have the exact same awning with the same "El P****" lettering above the awning. We contend that the original LOUNGE needed expansion and hence the small 'add-on' building was built. NOW...in the fire pics you can see that the "EL P***** Cocktail LOUNGE" sign was attached to the hotel...not the smaller building. In the pic with the firetruck...and the pic where spectators are sitting on the railing the you can see that the "EL P***** Cocktail LOUNGE" was still there in the small building next to the hotel. I asked THE Wife what she thought those orange letters on the part that is in the hotel building spelled in the pic with the firetruck. She squinted and said right off... L O U N G E. Thats our story and we are sticking to it...LOL
Ohhh. Look what I found. Clues. See, I think it's the building beside it that is the El Patio. It's still there. Here's the historic marker information. http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=33267 Look at that tile on the front and the photo of the original site, it is right beside the Commercial. Now what this hints at, and I can't figure out, is if they are talking about two businesses - the El Patio Lounge, and the El Patio Cafe... it sounds like maybe the lounge was in the hotel? When I have time to search the newspaper archives, you'd think it would be mentioned as part of the story. Meanwhile, that may answer the puzzle as to how the tiles were painted. They are saying those had been uncovered. And it sure looks like it matched across the front of both buildings. AHA! I think we have a winner, and I think you are right. This is 1949, but yeah. And it explains why 'it wasn't burned out', they just moved next door. http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cpa&CISOPTR=2067&CISOBOX=1&REC=5
OK, so I got the tile front done and cut in last night, as well as got the bases cut and put in (which meant the old buildings are pretty much demolished for salvage. I think I'm pretty satisfied that "EL PATIO" or "EL PATIO LOUNGE" will be the orange letters on the front, unless I can prove otherwise. Knowing that was in the corner gives me justification for the edge sign even if I'm not modeling the building to the right of it (that is still there today). But that's a final detail when I'm still roughing out ground-floor window and door openings. On the research side.... this is REALLY dark, makes the Monte Vista ghost stories tame by comparison and possibly explains why the site was never rebuilt. Turns out the hotel had turned into a residence hotel, and a rather seedy one, by the 70's. I got into the archives of the Arizona Sun and the want ads were full of weekly and monthly rate cheap rooms for the Commercial, all the way back to 1970. The 1975 fire was arson, and coincidentally on the VERY DAY when the building was to be condemned due to health and code violations by the City. The fire department didn't do much except keep it from spreading, as the building was going to be emptied that day by the police. But it wasn't empty, there were holdouts living inside. Several escaped the fire. It certainly had a 'rep', as newspaper archives had more that a couple stories of arrests there prior to the fire. In January 1976, more photos were published, the demolition company pulling the huge "HOTEL" roof sign out of the ruins, and then an article in the back pages... workers salvaging the rubble out of the landfill (looking for the brick) found an unidentified body in the demolition rubble. From the looks of the headlines, this was the start of a murder investigation.... stay tuned. I've always said that part of the fun of prototype modeling was the research, but I didn't expect to stumble into this story of a model I'm building. The color fire shots seemed to show that the building was looking pretty ragged before it ever caught on fire. The turquoise blue trim paint was very faded and dirty, the dark gray 'stripe' across the front is unexplained. Tiles looked like the ones that remain on the other building. The window shots in the fire show signs of caulking without repainting. This is consistent with the story. I still haven't seen any mention of whatever business was (or wasn't) left in the corner, the reason for checking. But for all these years, and all the googling I've done, I'd never heard this one... that it was torched the day it was to be closed, and then later found that body. So far it reads like a TV script, and it will be interesting to follow the story though. Certainly a lot more bizarre than any fabricated story concocted for a freelanced structure, and no Pola structure ever had this back story.
So I've spent almost two evenings just reading the news stories on this. It's pretty twisted. newspaperarchive.com has two years worth of stories, including the murder charge, accusing the owner (who had three other of his properties taken out by arson within two years other than this including a hotel in Winslow), a suicide of the 'person of interest' thought to be the torch man (but never charged), enough stuff to write a decent novel. The case was apparently never closed, no arrests ever made. I'll try not to get any more distracted with that. What I did see in the newspaper stories was a couple fuzzy shots of the front. Still can't read the sign over the RH side, too fuzzy. But one detail was still there on the fire coverage shots, a barber pole on the RH side door to the entrance. So the barber moved to the LH side. Nice detail to add. Most of the front detail is now lining up rather nicely with photos from the stories. I have the entire lower side windows and doors now cut out with that information. The arches over top of the windows on the first floor were covered. Looks like single-pane commercial windows on the ground floor. The ornate detail to either side of the main entrance was intact to the end. Enough to model from reasonably accurately here. The really wild shot was one in the paper of the demolition. The huge roof sign went straight down, in the inside, and there was a shot of guys climbing around it on the inside of the building. You get a sense of size. For you Atlas guys wandering in here, I've been here a long time. Since my construction threads kept getting archived when I was still working on them, I moved everything over here like that. Make yourself comfortable, I have!
Weelllllllllll...ya may not be happy ...yet. BUT....looks way better then the stand in ya had on there originally...just sayin :tb-wink:
