Running more than one loco

I have noticed that in pictures posted on the web by Model RR Clubs and others that they run more than one loco in a consist. How is this done? I know that model locos run at different speeds even those by the same manufacturer and model. Can some one tell me how to do this without harming my locos? Thanks.

Chuck Parker

 

I'm no real expert, but I see three ways of doing this.

1. Using "dummy" locos. The first is powered and the others that follow are unpowered.

2. Using DCC. You program the speed for each loco to match each other and then program them to run together. I don't run DCC, so I can't get into the nitty gritty details. I'm sure it varies with each system.

3. Run a pair of the same loco (not coupled) at the same time. If they are close in speed, then I think you run the one that is slightly faster in the lead. If they don't match closley in speed, then I wouldn't try running them together.

I'm sure (hope) that more experienced modelers will chime in...

 

#3 is how I do it. Usually I buy lashups all at once, so they're from the same manufacturer, and from the same run. Then, if I have others that happen to run at the same speed, I can throw them in the mix too. For example, I often run my C44-9W in the lead, followed by two C30-7's. This is an unbeatable amount of pulling power.

 

Although the question has been answered quite well, I'd like to add my methods of running multiple locos. I use #1 and #3 methods above, although dummy locos in N are quite rare beyond Lifelike's recent cab diesel pairs. If I want to run two or three (have done 4) locos together in one lash-up, I set them on my track about 2 feet apart and run them around the layout. If they don't close or widen the distance between them appreciably in a short time, then I consider them compatible enough to be "lashed" together. If one is just slightly faster than the ohter, I put the faster one in the lead. Experiment.

 

Since I run DCC, I program the units to run with the same characteristics. Some trains have a mix of Kato, Atlas or OMI units. On some trains, I run helpers or even DPU's.

 

If the speed difference(s) between coupled locos is not that great, there should be no damage. When you run two locos on the same track and the separation between the locos increases by no more than 1 foot over a 20 foot run, you should be OK.

I have been running an A-B-B-A lash-up of Kato F7's and double-headed Kato Mikes for more than five years with no problems. The F7's have differences that are about what I described above, however the Mikes are closer to being the same speed.

[ 22. July 2002, 22:28: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]

 

Unless I'm running loco's of VASTLY DIFFERENT SPEEDS, I don't worry about this... I think people put too much time and effort into this subject. Just move on and run the trains. Now that's not saying I'd run ModelPower loco's with Atlas loco's...

 

I have to agree with the last post.I just let the faster locos wheels spin.I havn't expirienced any real problem with this in 10 years in N scale.Also,think about this,if you put a slower loco in the lead,the trailing faster loco is pulling on the whole train,so it's not going to push on the lead loco.(does this make sense?)

 

Chuck, by the way, welcome to Trainboard.

What part of NC are you from?

 

Another method I've used with Atlas models is switch shells and chassis's around. The chassis is the same for the Atlas GP38 and GP40/40-2 and also their B23-7 and the B30-7/36-7. Right now I have on my layout a consist of a CSX GP40-2/Chessie GP40/CSX B30-7/CSX B23-7 and a CSX GP38. On Atlas's new runs of locos(B30/36-7 and GP38) they have the newer slower motor. I just swapped them from the older motored chassis's. Same can be done with Atlas SD50/60/60M.

 

I'm from Morehead City.

Thanks to all of you for your replies. They have cleared up a lot of questions.

 

Often I run multiple loco lashups, but over the years have developed some rules of thumb:

1. Never cross manufacturers. Run many of the same model or AB sets of the same mfg.

2. Test run the locomotives first, and try to run the faster ones ahead of the slower ones.

3. If there is a great difference in speed even in the same locomotive models, do not run them as multiple units.

4. Even if you were to find a couple of different locos that run at the same speed, keep in mind they may not match at other speeds or react to your power pak the same way.

5. Run multiple lashups as slowly as you can get away with it.

6. Make sure all locos are properly oiled and maintained prior to lashing them together.

7. Never take your eye off a lashup when you are running them. Learn from steamguy's major errors.

Happy running......

 

I'm using DCC but am to lazy to speed program every decoder. Around 80 out of my 100 locos are Kato and they match pretty well. At least as long you don't mix F-Units with GP/SD's.
Reprograming a decoder to match the speed does help for a while. Some motors wear out faster than others. Even if from the same manufacturer and production run. If you have to similar locos and one runs a bit smoother than the other you will have speed differences soon again. Just because of the brushes in the motor wearing out faster. You need to correct the decoder's speed tables every now and then. That's way to much work. I just lashup my units and run them. Never had major problems with that.

have fun
Sandro

 

I've run as many as 6 GP-20's together without any problems. In fact, one of the members of our N-Trak club remarked on that the other day.

I recommend method #3 also. If they stay fairly close together, lash-em-up. I've always tried to put the faster engines in the center of the lash-up. Seems to work well for me.

[ 24. July 2002, 17:23: Message edited by: nmtexman ]

 

There is always a reason why electric motors wear out faster than others, Sandro. It doesn't JUST happen and JUST one of them is MUing badly matched engines. and you will eventually have problems

If you have a friend who is an electrical engineer JUST ask him if he would explain it to you.

 

Gary

I've been racing with electric powered R/C cars for more than a decade. Believe me I know about motors wearing out. I also know how to clean and treat them. There are some 'magic' liquids who help reduce the drag and wear on brushes anc commutators.
I just wanted to show that one has to repeat the speed programming on the decoders from time to time to keep the locos matched.

 

Sandro, I do not doubt that you are an expert on R/C racing cars and superb at cleaning and treating their electric motors, but R/C cars are a whole different ball game compared to the motors used in Model R.R. engines. R/C car motors are designed for torque.

As for the on going programming maintenance of decoders to keep engine speeds matched, I know nothing about the technique because I do not use DCC, but it sounds like a good suggestion to give to other DCC users if they don't want to replace a lot of motors.

I have 36 years experience in The Elecrical Engineering Dept. of B.C. Hydro as an Electrical Designer, so I also know a little bit the electrical subject and motors.

The point I'm trying to make to model railroaders that have little knowlegde about the electrical subject and motors in particular, is that heavy load causes excessive wear on the brushes and commutator and there is absolutely no point in wearing out the motors of your expensive engines having them fight one another in badly matched MU hookups.

The harder an electric motor has to work pulling a load, the more current that is required (amps) to keep it turning. If you have continually more current passing through the brushes, the quicker they will wear out. Excessive load also degrades the commutator and you can see that when you take the brushes out and see grooves and carbon tracking in the commutator segments.

Badly Mued engines are a perfect example of this excessive load problem. It doesn't matter if the faster running engine is pulling or pushing the slower running one. It is either dragging it, or pushing it and the current draw may even double across its brushes in doing so.

If you know how to hook up an ammeter to the transformer that is supplying power to the rails of your layout, you can test this load factor.

R/C cars are not pulling or pushing 100 car trains, or each other, they are just running maxed out and that also can cause excessive wear as you have no doubt found out. You cannot compare R/C car motor usage to motor usage in an exquisite model R.R. engine with a 5 pole squewed motor driving reduction gears.

The magic liquid you are refering to that you use in your R/C cars might be Whal Oil.

You should keep up the decoder maintenance on speed matching of your Mued engines and try to match them up speed wise and you will certainly have less problem with malfunctioning motors on your Model railroad.

As you mention " Have Fun" and good maintenance helps that.