Routing through Mobile to be discontinued?

David B. May 2, 2006

  1. David B.

    David B. TrainBoard Member

    24
    0
    13
  2. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Staff Member

    19,084
    20,874
    243
    Either way they would still have to go through Mongomery. Talk about going around your elbow to get to your thumb. What have they been drinking in Jacksonville at CSX headquarters these days?
     
  3. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    Rerouting CSX on MS Coast

    From what I am hearing, CSX would sell the Mississippi trackage in west Jackson County, Harrison County, and east Hancock County. CSX would keep the trackage from Mobile to Pascagoula, and the trackage from New Orleans to Port Bienville to serve their existing customers. Please understand that this information is little better than rumor, not even close to second-hand....:eek:mg:

    I agree that the route from Jacksonville or Tallahasee up through Montgomery and on to Meridian would bypass Mobile for through freight. But CSX would hold onto the route from Mobile up to Montgomery. Also, CSX might be able to negotiate trackage and/or haulage rights on CN/IC from Mobile, north to Hattiesburg where CN/IC interchanges with NS, and on to Jackson where CN/IC interchanges with KCS.

    BTW, four or five years ago, the Sunset was routed from Mobile up to Hattiesburg on CN/IC, then down to New Orleans on NS while CSX repaired the Rigolets Bridge over Lake Pontchartrain.

    Apparently, CSX has worked out most, if not all of the details and is only waiting for Congress and Mississippi to come up with ~$700M. We'll see what happens once (if?) Congress passes the Iraq/Katrina Funding bill and Bush signs it. Might happen in a month or so, but I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath just yet. :teeth:
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    For the Sunset- How much additional time is added to their schedule?

    Boxcab E50
     
  5. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    I don't know for sure. It would add ~80 miles, so I'd guess 2-3 hours.:eek:mg:

    The NS segment between New Orleans and Hattiesburg is 79 mph for the most part. I don't know about the CN/IC segment between Mobile and Hattiesburg, but since it's freight only, I suspect it's between 25 and 40 mph.

    On the other hand, Amtrak doesn't seem all that anxious to restart the Sunset east of New Orleans any time soon, if at all. So who knows? :confused:
     
  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    That's lousy news. In the passenger trade, such added time subtracts riders. :eek:mg:

    :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  7. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    343
    0
    17
    I am a little confused by IPSCO's concerns in that article. They are complaining that it would quadruple the time it would take to get to New Orleans where it then goes to points west. Well, if it is going to points west, why not hop on the CN to Jackson, MS and then go West? Is there some particular reason their steel has to go through New Orleans?
     
  8. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    I suspect that IPSCO, or the article's author is trying to make the point by "arm-waving" rather than by researching facts to support their argument.

    We have the same problem with media reporting here on the Coast regards the CSX/State effort. The media keeps reporting that the tracks are to be MOVED, not that the trains are to be RE-ROUTED. If funding is approved and CSX agrees to abandon the line, the tracks will remain and be used for Light-Rail in the median of a newly constructed 4-6 lane east-west roadway. This new roadway will allow the US-90 designation to be relocated north from the beach about a 1/2 mile to better survive future hurricanes.

    The word "MOVED" has upset a majority of residents living 10-30 miles north of the Coast because they assume that the tracks would be relocated through their neighborhoods. Consequently, a ground swell of protest is building in an attempt to block this action. A total waste of energy caused by careless research and reporting.
     
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    I've seen it happen. Had to deal with some myself.

    :sad: :thumbs_down:

    Boxcab E50
     
  10. David B.

    David B. TrainBoard Member

    24
    0
    13
    It would have made a lot of sense to rebuild the railroad 10-30 miles inland. Don't know how much that would cost though. You'd think it wouldn't have to go through anybody's neighborhood. Not like there's a vast urban landscape 10-30 miles inland along MS and AL.

    Pick a route that minimizes road crossings and doesn't go through towns and you'd have a start to a high speed rail corridor.
     
  11. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    Build New Line vs. Reroute

    David, I agree with you from a logical stand point, but (you knew a "but" was coming, didn't you, LoL ) the current estimate for building a new rail line from scratch is almost $20 Million per Mile.

    I attended a meeting hosted by CSX and the MS Transportation Dept. about three years ago which was a real eye-opener! The proposed right-of-way with a limited amount of interference to communities (not the least, mind you) would require about 100 miles of virgin territory. The estimate they (CSX & MS DOT) presented for the cost of the project from womb to tomb was just under $2 Billion (with a "B"!).

    What makes the current deal so attractive is that the purchase price being discussed by all sources is about $700 Million (with an "M"!). I have no clue where this figure originated, but nobody, including CSX, is disputing it. I assume that CSX has worked out some deals in the "back room" with other roads (CN/IC, NS, KCS...?) that they are telling nobody, especially the media!

    Stayed tuned...it's gonna get interesting. :eek:mg:
     
  12. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    Don't forget the ridiculous costs associated with combating the NIMBY factor. And the uncountable years delay that would cause.

    :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  13. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    Ken, the time line from the CSX/MDOT meeting to create the new rail line was 15 years minimum, and probably more like 20 years allowing for the NIMBY factor, which, by the way, was NOT factored into their $20M per Mile cost estimate. :angry:
     
  14. David B.

    David B. TrainBoard Member

    24
    0
    13
    $15-20M per mile still isn't bad compared to the cost of a highway.

    15-20 years, though is woeful. It took less time to build a transcontinental railroad laying rails by hand.
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    Sad. But true. That's what happens when you've a combination of too much bureaucracy, and uncountable litigations.

    :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  16. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    Personally, I think the 20 year estimate to complete a 100 mile railroad from scratch is far too low. Two years ago, MDOT completed a six-mile, four-lane road project that took 11 years from initial approval. The first eight years were to complete Environmental Impact Studies and combat NIMBY protests.

    Hmmm....1.83 years per mile for the road gives 183 years for the RR!:eek:mg: :sad:
     
  17. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    I fear your estimate may be closer to accurate than we know....

    :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  18. David B.

    David B. TrainBoard Member

    24
    0
    13
    It's just not this hard in Railroad Tycoon. :)
     
  19. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    12,764
    3,198
    173
    Possible Abandonment - NO&M

    Yesterday's (5/22/06) Trains.com Newswire (http://trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/006/671slong.asp) contains an article that addresses traffic on the CSX NO&M Sudivision, including the temporary(?) loss of the Sunset Limited between New Orleans and Orlando. However, what I found interesting is the third paragraph which I have quoted below.

    "CSX had to make major repairs to the Gulf Coast line, its NO&M Subdivision, has said an inland route would be more reliable. It has a plan in place to upgrade existing lines and send its trains from New Orleans through Meridian, Miss., and Montgomery before they either turn south to Mobile or continue east."

    This is the first time that I have seen any media directly report the CSX side of the story. What is most important is the statement that CSX has "a plan in place", giving the impression that they are waiting only for the $700 Million to become available before transferring right-of-way ownership to Mississippi....:eek:mg:
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    62,035
    7,728
    652
    Interesting. Guess we'll wait and wonder a while longer.

    Boxcab E50
     

Share This Page