I have been hearing rumblings on other boards and the aol boards that something is afoot with Rivarossi. The rumor is they may be pulling out of the market or they are for sale. All I know, is that Model Expo had a big sale on Rivarossi products. I placed an order for one (Rivarossi Loco) on 3/26/2001 and it was listed in stock. I checked status today and it was back-ordered. I hope I get it, but all these rumors about Model Expo and Rivarossi have me concerned. Anybody else have recent experience like this with Model Expo?
I understand from Con-Cor that Rivarossi has indeed been sold, the tooling is being gathered up and sent to the last remaining factory in Italy. The decision is being made to continue or just make the other toys that factory already makes for other markets. The Chinese plants put out such shoddy parts to be almost worthless, so production schedules could not be met for pre-production sales. "Place your order NOW for the limited run of Collectible blahblah and we will keep your money" Advertizing..... It is your own fault if you lose money on them. It has never been sound business practise to pay in advance, sight-un-seen for something just because the ADD says it's in limited supply or Collectible!!! To who? Who says you must pay extra just to get it? Advertizing has educated you into believing the manufacturer is your friend, and will work in your best interest. You have been raised to believe this poppy-cock, but you have been swindled! All the manufacturer wants to do is make a profit on his investment, or he can not stay in business. The whole hobby went down hill since kits went out and ready-to-run toys came in. Big profits in mass-production. There are probably enough F-7 locos in all scales to pollute the whole world. Every body has one, Why are they still advertizing "Get it while it's Hot, the New Improved, Collectible, F-7 Diesel that ........Order yours NOW before we even decide if we can sell enough of them to make the profit we want, (but don't tell them we are going to use their money to make the F-7 with!) And if they don't get enough lolly-pops to send money in as an unsecured deposit, then they will stall the guy and some never get their money back. The few that have the extra cash to sue, will get a portion of it, but the company can keep most of it. Its Disgusting! A Hobby is not expected to be profitable, it is for pleasure. At one time you could call or write to Gordon Varney and actually talk to him. He would give advice, he would consider your suggestions, and would see that parts were sent to you. He would even send blueprints for an engine he didn't make, because he cared about the Hobby! Try that today!
Oh Watash, you are my savior! Im glad others see this hobby turning into nothing but marketing and profits. Damn these ready to run models! Now we have to pay before we see any proof that these models even exist, and if your not in that first bunch of dollar-clenching collectors forget about getting anything. There is very little modeling in model railroading for alot of people nowadays. Now since I wasnt a modeler since a short time (6 years), I dont know how it was 20-30 years ago, but I believe back then there was alot more building then buying. Its great that we now have good looking and an abundance of models, parts, and supplies, but what good does it when everything is done for you? Just something that really gets me ... Mike Antkowiak
From what I have been able to gather from various sources, Rivarossi bankrupted yet again last year and has been purchased by an investment group. Keep in mind, that recently Rivarossi bought Joeuf in France and Lima in Italy, as well as a bankrupt Arnold in Germany. Trix also bankrupted and was bought by Marklin. It was the intention of the new investors to concentrate all production at the Lima factory. The new owners have severed their relationship with Model Expo effective the end of May and told Model Expo to return all unsold merchandise to Italy at that time. There were evidently too many manufacturers in Europe, paying wages that cannot even compete with US wages, let alone Chinese wages. I believe Con-Cor is awaiting developments concerning the N scale locomotives they batch order from Rivarossi, but I would not hold my breath awaiting a back ordered Rivarossi item. [ 05 April 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ] [ 05 April 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
Received an email from Marc Mosko, President of Model Expo indicating that as of Mar 31st, their relationship with Rivarossi was terminated. So I guess, it's official.
Maybe I'll just hold on to all the Rivarossi "Highly Collectibles" I have! Just think, all mine are absolutely brand new, never been run, and some have never been out of the box and still have the plastic wrap on! They will be worth big bucks to the Collectors on E-Bay!! I'll just wait a couple of years, then set my price like the Brass guys do!! Cash up front and no refunds!
Well I just got an email from Model Expo. They no longer do business with Rivarossi/Arnold. So my order will not be filled, even though I placed the order on March 26th, five days before they terminated their "relationship". I feel cheated in a way. You go to their web site which says the item was in stock and on sale. I guess I should have called. Oh well I still have a another AHM/Rivarossi that is being remotored, and flanges reground as I type. Now as far as those comments about "kit building" I have been in this hobby about 8yrs myself and I am tired of hearing people complain about how the old days were better. Maybe in your mind!! The old days included rubber-band drive athearns, Santa Fe warbonnet schemes on everything, block wiring systems, brass track, molded on oversize details, horn hook couplersor worse, plastic wheels and lets not forget that you sometimes had to build power packs. I will take today's technology anytime. I love DCC, I love the detail, pulling power and quietness of todays locomotives. I love nickel silver track and available prototypical paint schemes on all rolling stock. I will admit I still love to build my own structures. But I would rather spend time improving my layout, than troubleshooting it or the rolling stock. If I had to model by yesterday's standards I would probably have a 4x6 layout and a couple of locomotives. But by todays standards I have a 10 x 10 layout, plenty of nice rolling stock and have time for railfanning and working on my club's layout too. [ 06 April 2001: Message edited by: ajy6b ]
Well for one I wasnt in the hobby until 6 years ago, so I have no idea on how things were. But when I read MR, especially the 1980s, I see alot of scratchbuilding, kitbashing, early electronics and basically alot more modeling. Even though the modeling itself was not so great. But I agree that things are now better then 20 years ago in this hobby, but there has to be a balance of modeling and high quality of products available. If everythings done for you (Atlas GP38) thats no modeling, that buying. BTW, I dont see what your so upset about, its just my opinion. Mike
Not everybody has the luxuery of alot of time for their chosen hobby. I'd rather spend 5 minutes installing handrails and such than hours assembling the damn loco. This by the way is my slant on the subject,and I mean no disrespect for those of you who would rather build it yourself. <marquee>North American Rail Alliance</marquee>
Am I to understand that no more NW mallets or Berkshires will be made? Will these engines become real collectibles? Will I have to pay a fortune for a bland piece of plastic, or a bigger one for a overhyped hunk of brass? At least I was fortunate enough to get my AOE set while the SOS sale was on. I should have grabbed the mallet too. Will these engines be available any more, by Rivarossi or another manufacturer (IN PLASTIC)? %#&*#.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I have been in this hobby about 8yrs myself and I am tired of hearing people complain about how the old days were better. Maybe in your mind!! The old days included rubber-band drive athearns, Santa Fe warbonnet schemes on everything, block wiring systems, brass track, molded on oversize details, horn hook couplersor worse, plastic wheels and lets not forget that you sometimes had to build power packs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Those, my good friend, are not the good old days we are talking about. Those would be the dark hours of the empire, but we the rebels will prevail!!! Onward for quality!!! Onward for performance!!! Onward for reliability, affordability, and credibility!!! Opps, getting a little carried away here. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I love DCC, I love the detail, pulling power and quietness of todays locomotives. I love nickel silver track and available prototypical paint schemes on all rolling stock. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You got me when it comes to some of that other stuff, sounds all right. Except for the part about pulling power and quietness. I have a couple beauties that were made right after the war before the dawn of time that are sound, reliable old pieces of machinery. Especially the Fleischmann. But I do agree with you, some things are much better considering that the only locomotives are no longer just that awful War bonnet toteing F unit!
Has anyone heard anymore on Rivarossi? Do they have someone interested in selling thier loco's here? Me and John(7600EM_1) were talking that if maybe we could start a petition drive to Rivarossi to resume selling in the USA, especially the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 they have been promising to release. Opinions, anyone?
Sorry if I got a little carried away about the old days. It strikes a nerve with me since we have this dinosaur in our club and that is all he talks about. He won't lift a pinky finger to help with any new stuff and attempted an anti-dcc movement. My apologies. Now more on my tales of woe. Two weeks ago, I was dreaming of having two Rivorassi Y6b pulling a long string of 70 ton hoppers up the 2% grade on our club layout. Well, Model Expo cancelled the order on the new one So, I thought at least I had my other one that was just shipped off to be remotored and have the flanges turned to rp25 standards. Well as it turns out the US Postal Service eliminated that possibility. It arrived at the repair shop in several crushed and mangled pieces beyond repair. This loco was sent in the same box and packing material I originally got it in. The repair shop said it looks like the box was either tossed or had something heavy hit it. It was their third loco in as many months to arrive that way, when they haven't had any arrive broken for 3 yrs prior. Anyway, I had it insured and now have to begin the long claims process with the USPS. When I get my money, I will either buy some P2k GP9's or more decoders A note for shipping. I was told by the repair shop that the box should be a size of 7 times the loco's girth and half again its length, bubble wrapped and placed in center of box, then surrounded by styrofoam popcorn. My mistake is that my box was only 3 times its girth. Everything else applied.
Ajy6b, you didn't really miss anything in the loss of the Rivarossi y6b. Mine runs pretty smooth running alone or with a couple of cars. You were planning on doubleheading and pulling a string of 70 cars up 2+%? If the rubber band tires grip enough to pull the load, but your motor stalls, you got to quickly kill the power or your motor will over-heat and melt the plastic boiler! Several Rivarossi's have gotten hot enough to melt the boilers just while running on layouts trying to pull rather wimpish loads. That is all hearsay. I know if you add too much weight, it might be best to re-motor to keep the heat down. If dad were to make a y6b it would weigh around four and a half to five pounds and certainly would not need to wear rubbers to pull 70 cars! You mentioned having the wheel flanges turned down. I tried that in my model shop. Forget it! Rivarossi as with most models of today make their drivers in a single injection molded piece of plastic, (Hub,spokes,counter-weight,crank-pin,tire,and flange; all one piece)! To get electric pick-up from the rail to the motor, they electroplate a thin nickle skin (.0002" to .0012"thick) on the tire and flange part. The motor current pick-ups rub the inside of the wheel, so current is passed from the rail to the motor until the nickle plate arcs or wears through to the plastic. OK? It was a HUGE cost savings to the industry that allowed them to go up on the price, now that they can offer you the "Collectable" engine and it NOW comes with "Nickle Plated Wheels", (at slight added cost of course). By doing away with the brass tire/flange they saved the cost of brass and the shipping weight, cost of the automatic screw machine to make them in two sizes of bores, and also solved the insulating problem! They saved the cost of the insulating fiber too. They saved the cost of heating the pot metal, cost of the die inserts for the mold to diecast the wheels, cost of reaming the hub to press fit the axle, cost of turning the potmetal to press fit the brass tire, and the cost to press fit the fiber and brass tire for the other wheel. Then there was a fine finish trueing cut made to insure the pair was true to the axle, eachother, and diameter. When the adds first came out, everyone was duped into thinking the companies had nickle plated the brass wheels for us so corrosion would not be a problem! It never entered or minds the new wheels were just plastic junk! So we gladly paid more, when we should have boycotted refusing to buy cheap shoddy quality. That is also the reason you have half-wheels on all your cars. They can injection mold one half wheel, slip two halves on a piece of wire, (They are self-gauging, see) and you have insulated finished wheels, plastic, dirt grabbers. I wont even go into what happened to the trucks, but basically the same thing only worse. That is the way it was, and the way it is today. Now everything got sent to China. Make the best of DC or DCC which ever you prefer, they are both good. The strides being made in DCC will eventually make it the control of choice because it is cheaper to make, so, again more profit, but it also provides you some advantages. I understand the old duffer in your club. Back in his Glory Days, we could call, write, or visit and talk to the manufacturers, tell them what we wanted, and they listened and even gave us advice. We paid their checks, so they tried to make sure we bought from them by giving us good quality. Sure most was in the form of kits, there was a pride of accomplishment when YOU did it; but there were people that would assemble those kits for you too! There were also custom builders who might buy wheels and motors, sometimes gears, then start with brass bars and sheets, and make you an engine from railroad blue prints, like my dad and I did. Today, you call it BRASS, but it isn't the same exactly. BRASS is mass produced on tooling, regardless of what they claim about being "Limited Quantity". People buy them direct in large quantity, store them in warehouses, then sell them a little at a time to keep the price high, the same way diamonds are sold. Why do you suppose the F-7 keeps coming out "NEW" ever so often?These people do not care about you or your favorite hobby store, they are after the power of profit. Now you know, so you should understand what has happened, and be better able to deal with the plastic world of today. PROTEST. FIGHT. Tell the manufacturer's what you want. Enough people collectively got the right for women to vote! The difference is: Back "then" most people were craftsmen anyway because of the lifestyle, where "today", there are only a few craftsmen. The lifestyle today is: "Live hard, party hard, grab what there is, enjoy it while you are young, die fast, there isn't any future anyway now that they have made the bomb"!
Hi gang, I feel somehow concerned in the "drowning" of Rivarossi because, as someone said before,they bought Jouef who was the only French manufacturer ( a sort of french Mantua) some years ago.Now Jouef is aboard the titanic and French kids may not be able to buy simple and affordable rolling stock like I did when I was younger. In the mean time, German and Austrian brands are doing well, managed by people who like trains, are themselves modellers and know how to satisfy modellers. I think,IMHO,that the trouble is that today, industry is often lead by people who are not real professional, doing one thing after an other. In the last years,Jouef marketing staff was made of guys who were selling tires or bathroom appliances some months before. Moreover,governments are keeping increasing taxes on labour, making the work in Far East so much profitable that nobody wants to make models were people enjoy them. Has anyone ever saw a layout or a club in this country were Atlas makes his stuff done? The money goes to dictators, and the US or European worker get stuff made by kids who will never enjoy it. That why I have rather to spend more bucks for Civilised-world made models, and do not consider price only but also effort to make customer oriented products. I need an N-scale GP 9 in UP and NP paintjob,where am I gone find it, with their #{[#{[| limited run ? Some people say it is too expensive to carry stock, but that what I do for my business all the time ! That is true that it is much more expensive when you receive your stock in containers from the People-Jail "Democratic Republic Of China" If someday a US manufacturer would decide to run a good N-scale line, with good details and good running and AVAILABLAlITY, I would accept too spend 20 or 30 % more. But many I am a bit naive... Marc
I agree with you Marc. Our substandard N scale diesels are going for top of the line prices in HO. Trying to compromise an agreement with making things easier for the N detailers ( less molded on stuff), I get alot of hot air from Atlas, like increased costs. For having less molded on detail? And still for such medium quality diesels? Im starting to get a bit tired of all this corporate junk getting into our hobby. Mike Antkowiak
I grabbed one of the last two remaining Y6-B's at FirstHobby.com I must disagree about the performance of my engine. It is powerful and quiet. I am pulling a ten car train of Budd and P.S. heavyweights, all set to NMRA standards (in Southern of course) I think this is a beautiful engine in its own unique way. ajy6b, your story of the mangled engine made me truly sick. You have all my sympathies, thanks for the suggestions on proper packing!
This stinks guys!!!!!! I have an old Y6b that is in need of parts that was made when AHM sold Rivarossi products!!!! I can repair and supply parts for the older stuff sold by AHM. But sadly the parts I need for my Y6b, are in fact gone! My supplier are sold out of any parts for the Y6b! (exception for a few MINOR parts that nerver were known to go bad) So I'm on the market looking for a parts wagon of a Y6b. I deal with AHM/IHC direct if you all are wondering i'm a full time repairman in this hobby. I can get ALMOST any part for any loco made (if its still in stock). Thats why i'm trying to find a junk Y6b (look in HO forum here or right here in Inspection pit For my post) its sad the way the mailing process in this country is rogh on things!!! I hate it so bad, at least once a month in my orders I receive damaged parts or something then I have to quarrel with the parts shop about it. If I pay for parts to be in "NEW" shape I exspect them to arrive at my door in "NEW" shape as well. Not junk parts like the same exact part i'm tryin to replace!!!! They make you work twice in a sence of its own. Which I don't like to do!! I like to do work and do it right the first time!! Not go back and redo my work that i've already done!!!!! I make sure its done right the first time and that to me is respect to the people I have as customers!!!!! They don't have a worry once i've preformed a job on any thing. I warrent any work I do for one full year of the date it was completed, exception for lubercation, light bulbs, and cleaning/polishing!!!!!!
6206_S1a, Hows the Challenger doing since the head light job???? I forgot all about it on the phone when you returned my call on my Challenger. Mine is well on the way to be a Western Maryland "M-2" 4-6-6-4!!! Everyone at the station should like him!!! I love the idea of it being Western Maryland already!!! And its not done yet!
Hey John, The Challenger's doin' good running, but the light flickers just like my Big Six did before you put the new bulb in him. It may be dirty wheels, so I'll clean them & the track and I'll let you know. Will, my Challenger is the same type of drive as your Big Boy and I'd say it should do the job, no sweat. But do keep an eye on the motor heat. My Challenger is UP design, but it's Clinchfield. The Clinchfield had 5 of them on thier railway (nos 670-675) The Denver, Rio Grande & Western had them first, loaned to them by the US Gov't during WW2. The DRG&W didn't like them, so they sent them back, and Clinchfield, needing more motive power, got a real deal from the Feds, complimenting the Challengers already running on thier lines.
