Replacement Motor for older Kato Diesels

trainplayern8 Aug 29, 2019

  1. trainplayern8

    trainplayern8 TrainBoard Member

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    I have a couple older Kato GP50's and 38-2's that I cannot find replacement motors for anywhere. Kato has them listed as sold out and they probably aren't going to ever have any more. Has anyone found a good replacement motor? One of the diesel's was one that I had given to my dad as a Christmas present so if I can, I'd like to try and fix it up.

    The problem I have with the loco's is that they power on but do not move. The lights come on when I throttle up, but that's about it.
     
  2. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    You have a picture of those motors ? I...like a thousand other guys have boxes of 'parts'. I know if I have any motors that will work..they run. If they didnt i woulda tossed em not saved em ;)
     
    trainplayern8 likes this.
  3. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    Have they been converted to DCC or are they still DC? If still DC, I would check the bottom bronze wiper to make sure it's clean and making good contact with the frame. Also make sure all the screws are tight in the light board and make sure none of the drive shaft retainers have popped out of the walkway. If still an no go, the next option would be to disassemble the motor by carefully removing the top and bottom brush caps, careful not to loose the springs although the caps, springs and brushes are still in stock at Kato USA. You then have to pry up on the two metal tabs on the armature cover, one on the top of the motor and the other tab on the bottom of the motor. You should then be able to slide the armature out of the motor to clean the commutator plates. If all else fails, give Kato USA a call to see if they have a source for replacement motors.
     
  4. Rich_S

    Rich_S TrainBoard Member

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    http://www.katousa.com/images/926010.jpg
     
    Doug Gosha likes this.
  5. trainplayern8

    trainplayern8 TrainBoard Member

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    They are still DC. If I ever go to DCC I will just buy new ones. I'll have to give those things a try. Thanks! I've already tried replacing the brushes. Thankfully they came with replacement spring. Boy are those things easy to lose in carpet!!!

    That's the ones!!
     
  6. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Let me go through my parts box(s) this weekend. In the meantime...like Rich said...call Kato USA to see if they can recommend a place to get them. (y)
     
  7. trainplayern8

    trainplayern8 TrainBoard Member

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    I will definitely try that. Thanks for looking, and for the suggestion!
     
  8. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Strange they won't run with new brushes. Do the armature windings look burnt? If not, check for wires disconnected from the commutators and, if you have an ohm meter, resistances of the windings.

    Doug
     
  9. bill pearce

    bill pearce TrainBoard Member

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    I'm just going off of experience, but aren't the Atlas motors, slow and fast, the same dimensions as the Kato motors? I'm sure there are exceptions, and the 38-2'ss and the 50's were that, but worth checking. And I'm happy yours ran good, mine were always troublesome.
     
  10. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    trainplayern8...

    I checked my parts boxes. I couldnt find any that would work...sorry.
     
  11. ns737

    ns737 TrainBoard Supporter

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    hi are the 38's first gen. or second gen? and did you remove the shell from the engines to see if motor turned and not the flywheels?
     
  12. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    i always take things apart that have very small parts on the kitchen table with two or three white towels laid out that way most parts will land on them white towels and you can find them. alaso a jewelers blanket or what ever there called. I use an old tee shirt and cut it so it spreads out like a sheet but keep the neck part in tact so you can put it over your neck and then tape the ends that you cut to the table then when things fly they will stay on that white tee shirt for ya. cheap an easy
     
  13. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    i always take things apart that have very small parts on the kitchen table with two or three white towels laid out that way most parts will land on them white towels and you can find them. alaso a jewelers blanket or what ever there called. I use an old tee shirt and cut it so it spreads out like a sheet but keep the neck part in tact so you can put it over your neck and then tape the ends that you cut to the table then when things fly they will stay on that white tee shirt for ya. cheap an easy
     
  14. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    i always take things apart that have very small parts on the kitchen table with two or three white towels laid out that way most parts will land on them white towels and you can find them. alaso a jewelers blanket or what ever there called. I use an old tee shirt and cut it so it spreads out like a sheet but keep the neck part in tact so you can put it over your neck and then tape the ends that you cut to the table then when things fly they will stay on that white tee shirt for ya. cheap an easy
     
  15. sidney

    sidney TrainBoard Member

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    stupid thing posted three times whats going on
     
  16. digimar52

    digimar52 New Member

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    Hi, the Kato GP38-2 and GP50 had a very special design which Kato never repeated. They were prone to develop problems in their drive-train, were the universal connection broke and/or the hex slipped in the flyweel. Kato fixed that in their second release of the GP38-2 and sold upgrade kits fitting both models. But that was about 20 years ago and the kits will are hard to find - at least here in Germany.

    There have been some discussions, how to fix the slipping, eg https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kato-emd-gp50.112973/

    Some said they could CA the hex into the flywheel, others found it would not hold or slip anyway.

    I've read about a permanent fix once, but couldn't find the link again. The basic idea is:
    • drill a central hole through the flyweel, perpendicular to its axel about half-way of the flyweel's length
    • glue a wire through that hole and make sure it will be flush with the flywheel's outside
    • file a slit into the connector were the universal used to be. It should be a little wider the the wire's diameter
    This is a little involved, since the wire has to cross the flywheel's center with only a very small deviation, but will couple motor and drive-train just fine.

    Hope it helps.
     
    catfan likes this.
  17. Lawrence

    Lawrence TrainBoard Member

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    I find putting the item into a large, clear plastic bag a good way of assembling, disassembling, as long as you can get you hands in okay, you can still see everything and, theoretically, anything that goes 'ping' will stay in the bag.
    I appreciate this doesn't help trainplayern8, with his motor issue just thought I'd mention it.

    As for the motor, I don't suppose Tomix do a whole chassis that would fit do they? There is a list at http://trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm

    So power to the lights is good, is power getting to the brush contacts? Does the armature spin with power applied? try a gentle tickle with something like a toothpick. If you can get the armature to spin then I guess the next thing to look at is the drive mechanism.

    Strangely enough I recently did a review on a rolling road I just bought, it would be perfect to help you with your fault finding and exactly the reason I bought one.
     
    Hardcoaler likes this.
  18. bremner

    bremner Staff Member

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    The Tomix chassis doesn't have the weight or the correct wheel diameter or wheelbase
     
  19. viperjim1

    viperjim1 TrainBoard Member

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    That looks like a Seiskiu motor from concor for the j3's and such steam locos,
     
  20. trainplayern8

    trainplayern8 TrainBoard Member

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    So I was able to open up the motor as you described. I was able to clean it up a little bit and after putting it all back together it ran okay, then slowed down until it stopped, even at full power. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I didn't clean it thoroughly enough?
     

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