Rails to trails

Hi all:

Has anyone had experience with trails groups that want to take an abandoned right-of-way for their exclusing use as a trail?

 

We have two such trails close to me and they are definitely public. It would seem to me that the deeding of former rights-of-way to any private group would really run afoul of property rights as I understand them.

Lawyers speak up please.

 

Not a lawyer.

As I understand it, the abandoned rail lines used for RTT projects aren't really abandoned. They're leased or donated or whatever for use as a trail, which actually keeps the right of way available for eventual conversion back to active rail use, should it ever be needed.

Without that, the right of way tends to get sold off and obliterated by other interests.

Railfans should be staunch supporters of RTT, in my opinion.

 

Thanks, guys. The Southern Pacific Placerville Branch was purchased by local government entities (cities and counties that the ROW passes through) about 20 years ago after SP completed the abandonment process. It's now managed by the Sacramento-Placerville Transportation Corridor JPA, of which my county, El Dorado in California, sits on the board.

I understand (from a layman's point-of-view) the abandonment process, etc. I'm asking if other RR historical groups have had experience with trails groups that want to deny use of existing rails for historical trains.

 

Steve,
Is some group trying to convert the Placerville Branch into a trail and not let the two groups trying to run trains to run trains?

 

If so, that's a somewhat different color horse. I'm all in favor of RTT efforts (I also hike and bike whe I'm not playing with trains) but only where the rails are otherwise in danger of being lost altogether.

That said there will always be competing interests for available space. It will be interesting to hear what's going on here.

 

Yes, John. There are segments within the local trails organization what wants to rip out the tracks from Folsom to Missouri Flat Rd in Placerville for exclusive trails use. They have a grand vision of a multiple use trail that connects a trail along the American River to South Lake Tahoe.

We have the backing of the JPA, so that won't happen, for now, at least. The County of El Dorado and the SPTC JPA are supporting multiple use for the ROW, which includes rail and trails.

 

Sounds to me like the whole scenario of the Woodinville sub all over again, which unfortunatelly also took the Spirit of Washington dinner train too. :thumbs_down:

 

rails to trains whipes out everything historical about some old lines and makes a trail where everything is fair game to people to destroy it
and not collect to preserve i mean to destroy like smashing a vase with blunt force for no reason
i disagree with rails to trails and ive only been on two o three and there wasnt anything inetersting on them at all exept destroyed telegraph lines (dont worry theres no insulators on them, i checkes good) and broken and dented siginal boxes
id vrather walk along the current right of way (which i eventually did)

 

The Bike-Path that runs close to my house used to be part of the Southern-Pacific's Stirling City branch, They abandoned the tracks in the 70's and It became a trail not too long ago. The same thing happened to most of the Sacramento Northern Tracks.

I support turning Abandoned track into trails, Towns usually built up around the tracks and when those tracks get turned in to trails it provides a nice way to walk around town

Tracks naturally make good trails because: The roadbed provides good drainage, there are no steep grades or tight curves.

Sure, I would like there to still be tracks where the trail is now, but not everybody is a rail-fan.

 

My god i hate rails to trails, the lines could be used for speeders or tourist railroads but why trails? This will just make it more expensive to restore the lines they ruin!

 

I too would love to see old rail lines saved with rails intact but lets be realistic. There is not enough money, groups or interest to save them all.

As a trail, this becomes a new chapter in the history of the line. A trail allows me and others to access right of ways that I might not have been able to before and see things from and entirely new perspective. They're great to go exploring as much as one with rail intact, in fact, easier to explore. I can now try for those loved "before & after" shots that can be really interesting. As for finding stuff of interest along a trail vs a line, I beg to differ. You might have to look a little harder.

Then again, vadalism and such will and does happen along lines that are even in current use by running railroads so that argument is out. Some would say those of us who would like to collect a spike or insulator are thieves and just as destructive as taggers and litterers. I can't entirely disagree with that view though I collect spikes and such myself on ocassion.

As for the line in question, the Placerville Branch, there is more than enough interest in keeping this a rail line. Two groups are trying to preserve it and run equipment on it. They are already putting in time and effort to keep it cleared and do some fixes. The upper end of the branch has already been turned into trails. The trail people trying to throw a kink in the plans need dry up and blow away.

 

so the trail people WANT to tear up the line?

 

We have a couple trails in my area that were old rail lines where the rails had long since been torn up and scrapped by the railroads themselves. Among them are the Springwater Corridor Trail, the Crown Zellerbach Trail, and the Banks-Vernonia Trail. I have actually seen footage of the railroad tearing up the line to the Oregon-American mill. This was not trail advocates or crazed wackos or whatever, it was the railroad, or scrappers contracted by them, doing it.

So, in that case, I fully support a conversion to a trail. It helps keep the right-of-way intact. I am in agreement with most of you folks that I hate seeing rails torn up for any reason. To me, the existence of ties and rails still gives me hope that the line may be used again my trains, but for some of these grades that have been out of use for decades I see no problem at all.

 

I agree - in my experience the railroads themselves are the ones tearing out the tracks once they decide they don't want to operate on them. The reasons are many and varied - and often surprising. The ex-CSX (Chessie) mainline running through southeastern Ohio was reportedly torn out by the railroad in record time in order to keep another railroad from taking it over. In any case, these abandoned, trackless lines are fantastic sites for use as trails. And yes, it does keep the rights-of-way available for possible future use as a working railroad again.

 

Here in Modesto, they have turned much of the old Tidewater Southern line into an urban trail. They pay tribute to the rail history of the area with the symbol of the TS as part of the park.

Those tracks essentially became redundant when the UP (Which took over the TS tracks with the takeover of the WP) took over the SP line though the center of town.

The city had been trying to force the tracks out of the center of 9th street for generations, so when that succeeded, the non street running portion was converted into a trail.

For more on the Tidewater Southern

 

i agree a trail takes out the historical look of a train paths right of way. i live in orrville, ohio and there is already 1 bicycle path on the old wheeling and lake erie line through dalton, ohio. the next one to become a path is the old akron branch line north of orrville, to warrick. 8 miles as been bought for a trail to be built i wish conrail never abondodned the line then ripped it up. if i owned a rr company of my own that line would be back into a rr like it was. its sad we're slowly destroying our history. many towns around where i live was built by the use of trains and this is how everyone thanks the railroad by tearing out the tracks and making it a path. really boring alot of old abandoned tracks are either gone, used for scenic tours or rail buggy rides. The Elk river railroad in gassaway, west virginia is the best company i've seen alot of the old B&O line down there is slowly being restored and someday will give scenic tour rides. we should form a group of our own preserving old railroads and rebuilding and laying them back town. it take alot of money but in years we'd accomplish quite a bit

 

As a bicyclist who has enjoyed riding the Yough biketrail, its the only feasible way to maintain a right-of-way that no longer generates traffic revenue. Tourist railroads are the other, but even they too mostly die unless they are incredibly popular (like the Cass... (which doesn't really count as it's funded by the state), Silverton & Durango, East Broad Top, etc.) or generate atleast a little freight traffic to get them through the winter (The Knox & Kane did til the end, The Titusville and Oil Creek still does). I'm not saying that I'm a all out supporter of all old railroads being converted to trails, but sometimes it's the only way to prevent the land from going under private ownership with no public access. Atleast the former railroad didn't care if you walked their abandoned tracks (to a point), but Joe Somebody will chase you off his property.
A better rails-to-trails program would be one that while removing the rails preserves a bit of the history along side. Say leaving a siding intact with an old relic of some sort sitting on it. Of course then you deal with the nature of people, vandalism, theft, or injuring themselves and suing you (or the agency you work for)
There's always some hitch in preserving something that doesn't generate it's own consistent revenue. For example, look at how the National Parks function, if no one visited them, they wouldn't exist. However they do exist because people use them. In turn, they do not preserve nature in it's natural state. Old rights-of-way are the same way, only preserving history instead of nature. But there is no money in letting people walk down old railroad tracks that still require insurance. Dirt or gravel is safer. And rusting machines are dangerous, so they have to go too. But I guess that's progress for you.