Just because these beauties aren't running much due to insurance issues, doesn't mean we can't have some fun with them. OK, steam fans, make me a list of everything these two beauties have IN COMMON and how many things they DIFFER in. I know, from these views you can't see the valve gear and drivers and stuff, but there are many other photos of these two out there. BTW, aren't they pretty? [ 06. January 2004, 05:49: Message edited by: fitz ]
OK, fitz I'll take a "stab" at it! Alike: Both have, Worthington Feedwater Heaters. Both have, low mounted head lights. Both have, pilots an not foot boards. Both have, the boiler smoke box hinges to the right from looking at the front. Both have, a numberboard on the headlight. Both have, I think Pyle single beam headlights. Both have, the bell mounted at the top of the smoke box on front. Both have, marker lights, on the smoke box. Both have, smoke box steps. Both have, smoke box hand railing. Both have Air ringer bells. Both have boiler walk up ladders an not steps. Dis-alike: The bells are 2 different sizes. The number board on the head on one is above an the other is below the head light. The smoke box numberboards are forward on one the the other are behind (further back on the boiler) The smoke box doors look to be different sizes. They both have 2 different type marker lights, with different mounts, older marker lights to the more modern type from one to the other. Both have to different size boilers in diameter. The one on the left looks to also have bigger diameter drivers, it sets higher, (or thats how the picture was taken). One has a cast pilot an the other has a sheet steel pilot. The smoke box hand railing is different from one to the other. one has the pumps on the pilot (with a shield) an the other doesn't. (or don't look to, dark picture). And last but not least, I believe the one to the right of the picture has light weight crosshead, an, crosshead guide the one to the left has heavy (original) crosshead, with the heavy crosshead guide. OK I know I didn't count the bolts in the boiler fronts someone else can do that I've spoted enuff, so I'll let someone else have at it. I know I left some out! Gotta give a chance to all the rest....
Im guessing the 700 has a bigger firebox because of access to NP low grade rosebud coal, a longer smokebox like it's sisters the NP A Class, and a semi-vandy tender?
John, a lot of details spotted there, buddy, and I can't believe you didn't count the bolts! Here is another set of views, for those who commented on tender, firebox, etc. The shot of 3751 was taken by Roy Forbes. I can't believe no one mentioned that they are both Baldwins. [ 06. January 2004, 05:51: Message edited by: fitz ]
WOW! I found one thing I said wrong! They both have lightweight crossheads an cross head guides! The 700 seemed as though it was older an all.... figuring it had the old heavy weight stuff! Both have Walschaert Valve Gear too! Sand domes on each are slightly different as well. Plus the 3751 has more sander lines, as though one line per driver.. Makes for saying it was added later, being big with big diameter drivers, I take it it was a "slipery" loco, an needed the extra sand for traction, might be why it also has a bigger sand dome as well! Both look to have top feed boiler check valves! But don't quote me on that! And as said, both got HUGE fireboxes! EDIT: Forgot to say, Jim, I thought I'd let someone else count the smokebox/boiler front bolts! I do that enough when I'm modeling something! But I had to leave something for everyone else to spot! [ 14. July 2003, 02:05: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
John, the sanders on 700 are under the jacketing. She's actually 11 years younger than 3751, 1938 vs. 1927. She has 77" drivers, and 3751 has 80", but those are replacements for the originals in 1941. They were smaller. Since I posted this I have looked up all the specs and they are more alike than not. I feel privileged to have ridden behind both of them, more than once.
Difference: If 700 is an NP locomotive (I am not familiar with 700), it burns coal. 3751 is ATSF, most ATSF 4-8-4s burned oil, this one is an oil burner. I do not know much about the NP's purchasing policies, but I do know that the ATSF would have dealt exclusively with the Baldwin if it could have gotten away with it. An overwhelming majority of the ATSF's steam locomotives were built by the Baldwin. This does make me wonder why ATSF did not run more Baldwin diseasels than it did. Another big Baldwin customer, PRR, ran many Baldwin diseasels as did the B&O, which was a major Baldwin steam customer; the B&O did not run as many types as did the PRR, but it did run more Baldwin types than did the ATSF.
Iteresting information everyone! Jim, I thought the sander lines were under that jacketing bulge to the lower sand done where it meets the boiler, I just wasn't sure if that was right. And It goes under all the boiler jacketing as well.... I take it that it had or had 4 sander lines per side then as well ???? 80 inch drivers.. WOW! I bet she could cruise at a good speed with the travel of that size drivers! brokemoto, More good information. I know Pennsy was an avid Baldwin purchaser, as the B&O was, in the steam days, just the B&O didn't buy as big of selection as Pennsy did in the days of diesels. But I can't comment to much on Santa Fe, I'm not that familar with them, nor done alot of research on SF, but I'm learning!
Brokemoto, the 700 was and is a Spokane, Portland and Seattle engine, and the SP&S had close ties to NP. SP&S 4-8-4's were virtually identical to NP A-3's, EXCEPT for the fuel. You are right, the NP A-3's burned coal, but SP&S burned oil. John, I can see sanders to at least the first two drivers, so I assume there are 4, or maybe 5 (the one reverse one). Keep it going, guys.
Jim, Yes alot had one sander line for reverse running an all for traction.... For backing up to couple an pushing a whole train in reverse without wheel slippage....
