I will be rebuilding my Nscale layout late this summer/early fall. It is sad in one way, but I am happy in another in that I intend to do upgrade everything. All of my previous building efforts centered around 2' x 8 ' box construction, which I hated! The new effort will be some form of L-Girder with foam. I want to attach a nice fascia panel around the lower and upper deck as well to give it a finished look. Everything I read says to use masonite. When you reseach that on say Lowes or Home Depot I don't find what I think I am looking for. I did stumble across the following on the attached link from Lowes. Is this similar to what your other folks are using, or is there I different direction I need to take this search. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. http://www.lowes.com/pd_16605-46498...¤tURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=hardboard&facetInfo=
Frank, That is in fact what people call masonite although I usually see it in brown. The front side is smooth and the back is pebbled. Paul
Thanks for clearing that up, Paul. I'm not sure what Lowes did to the picture to be honest with you. Here is a shot of it from Home Depot. Now the big question is whether to go with 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch. Any thoughts from anyone? http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...053&langId=-1&keyword=hardboard&storeId=10051
I thought I heard awhile back that 'masonite' would be no longer carried at Lowes or even manufactured? Anyway, the brown stuff is what most of us use. I'm not sure it is 'masonite.' I never saw it listed under that name since I've been in model railroading. Hardboard is what I've always know it as. So, color may not have to be an issue. The real issue is that whether it can be curved like the brown board. Jim
Many, many moons ago, tempered hardboard was made by masonite and it is the only name I knew it as. When I started looking for it on HD website a few months ago, I did not find it but when I went to the local HD I saw it and now they call it tempered hardboard... same product different name ... Frank, If your fascia is going to have lots of curves, the 1/8 will be easier to work with. Paul
Masonite is a brand name. Hardboard is the generic... since the big boxes are probably not buying the brand name product, that's probably why you can't find it... The stuff is pretty dense, and therefore quite heavy... I would go with the 1/8" as well, even if it was 100% flat and straight -- which my fascia is.
This subject is right up my alley today...The final leg of my layout will be a peninsula 5' long by 23-25" wide..I'm buying wood any day now..open grid style..Will masonite be able to bend 180 Deg. to round off end of peninsula if as narrow as 23" ? Will I need to soak it first and warp it into a close sized curve (bound and tied in maybe bath tub, say). Or, will I find I am able to cut height of facia (maybe 12-15" [or 24"+- if doubling as scene divider on one side, to half-way around curve]) and merely begin securing it on side of framework, just wrapping it around peninsula end, continuing to secure it to frame ? E.I. Will it snap in half in such a small radius if not pre-warped ? Also 1/2" ply sub-road bed at top will most likely have this arc, too .. Mark in L.A.
And in addition to the question MarkInLa has, I also wondered, how are you guys joining seams together where to pieces meet? Tape, Mud, Sand, Paint or not?
Reply to both Mark and Frank, I have bent 1/8" x 6" Masonite strips around a diameter of approximately 24" without a problem. The Masonite thickness must be 1/8", not 1/4". Attach one end, then slowly bend it around frequent supports, attaching it to each support as you bend. Don't rush bending or you probably will snap it. To join the ends, I used a 6" to 8" long piece of the same 6" wide strip with Elmer's (or similar) glue applied to the rough faces, clamped tightly behind the two ends. It's easier if you glue and clamp the butted ends before you make the final attachment of the fascia piece that you have been bending and attaching.
I don't join them as I see no reason to do so. Just like so many other details I just do not notice unless I look for them. And then I don't care if a seam is there.
Fascias, especially flowing fascias that do not necessarily follow the track can really add visual interest to your layout. I have been building a portable modular layout out of 3'X6' (3'wide at modular "ends") modules which have flowing, non-straight front fascias made from 1/8" tempered Masonite (or hardboard) which I purchased at The Home Depot last year. Here's how to do it and make 'em strong, flowing and easy to finish and paint using two layers of 1/8" tempered hardboard: (1) The first thing you do is determine the maximum "hill height" that will extend to the edge of your layout. You will want to cut your fascia hardboard at least as high as the highest point (from the fascia "baseline" to the top of the highest hill your fascia cuts through at the edge of your layout). (2) You can then start gluing and screwing your first layer of 1/8" hardboard (ROUGH SIDE OUT) to your fascia supports, which on my twin L-girder benchwork are straight redwood 2X2 "balusters" sometimes glued and screwed across both L-girders...sometimes just glued and screwed to only the outer L-girder depending on how far out the fascia is from the outermost L-girder. The 2X2's have pine gussets and straighteners glued and screwed to them on their ends which are the interfaces for attaching the first 1/8" hardboard fascia layer to. THIS IS IMPORTANT...drill countersunk clearance holes in your first hardboard layer, and turn the torque setting on your cordless drill to about 1/4 of what you would normally use to sink a screw. You DO NOT want to pop the hole, but you want the flat head of the screw to be at least even with the outer surface of the first 1/8" hardboard fascia layer and preferably just an RCH lower. Where your hardboard pieces meet up, glue and screw a straight pine 1X3 to the inside (SMOOTH) surface of your 1/8" hardboard, butting the pieces up against each other...and just continue on until you are finished with the first layer. (3) The second 1/8" fascia layer is glued and clamped to the first layer and is applied ROUGH SIDE IN, SMOOTH SIDE OUT, so that the two 1/8" layers are glued together rough side to rough side. Cut the outer layer anywhere from 6" to 1 foot shorter than the first seam on the inner layer, so you don't have the cracks between pieces exactly over the top of each other. My method for gluing and clamping is to cut a bunch of 1X2's that are the same length as the fascia height and use two clamps (one on the top, one on the bottom) about every 6 inches with the fascia layers sandwiched between two clamped 1x2's. I just keep going until I run out of clamps, which means I only do about 12' maximum per every two hours. What this method does, is it totally eliminates the need for spackling and sanding the screw holes, since the outer layer covers them all up. The only places that need filling, sanding and sealing are where your fascia panels are joined, and it's a simple vertical joint. It also strengthens the fascia against bumping damage and warping. I usually place the 2x2 redwood baluster fascia supports about every two feet...sometimes denser on complicated curves. I usually make a "straightener" for the fascia that needs to be straight...screwing and gluing the first layer to it, and supporting it with my 2X2 redwood baluster supports. Sometimes I just use the L-girder for support. It all depends on how deep I want to make my scene. Here are some photos of fascia work in progress on my modules. This is the first layer, glued and screwed, rough side out Here's the second layer, glued and clamped, smooth side out. I grabbed whatever pieces of wood to clamp to on this module. Another module showing 2X2 fascia supports, pine gussets and flowing fascia This is the way I do it. I'm sure there are other ways, but this works really well for me. Hope this assists you. Cheers! Bob Gilmore
Bob, your technique produces an impressive result. I wish I had thought to do mine that way. Oh Well, too soon old, too late smart.
Very impressive, Bob. I located the material last night. Just waiting for a contractor to finish the family room in the basement so I can have the left over utility room. 28 x 22
Bob, Have any of the countersunk screws popped? This would be my biggest concern with your technique. Paul
Bob, the fascia is nice, but what I really like is what's behind it! Wow, that's the Park City branch with Echo just around the corner and the makings ofthe narrow road underpass. Can't wait to see it finished, beautiful! just a question about the double fascia....doesn't it add a lot of weight? Regards, Otto K.
If this thread is progressive, it's not likely I will be in sync. Here are some examples of the work I've done recently with fascia. I like this new thumbnails feature...nice! You need to know. I'm not proud of the fact that I'ma dumpster diver. When a friend of mine, handyman, said he threw away some door skin I couldn't resist. The price was right and retrieving it easier then eating apple pie. Working with it...not so bad. Still digging splinters out of my fingers. I had to soak the wood to get it to bend. I pre-drilled my screw holes countersinking them with an offset bit. I then ran drywall screws in and you can see the results for yourself. :uhoh:We've had some earthquakes around the SoCal region. Usually, not always, this means we are due for a larger one. We've been due for IT the last 25 years or better. Anyway, call this earthquake proofing...too a point. Does this help answer the OP's question?
Paul, I glue all of my joinery on my modules with premium yellow carpenter's glue. Sometimes when I'm mounting the first fascia layer, I will forget and not turn the torque down on my cordless drill with the square drive bit in it, and yes...the screw will go right through the hardboard and into the pine gusset, taking a little ring of hardboard with it. However, I see this, since it's happening immediately as I am doing it, and I just drill another countersunk clearance hole, turn down the torque setting on my drill and screw another short #6 square-drive grabber into it. I use short screws of not more than 1" in length for this so the gussets won't split since I don't drill pilot holes into them. When the glue is dry, the screws are really superfluous, and in some cases, I've actually removed them before gluing and clamping fascia layer #2. So, the answer is "no"...I have not had a single "popped" screw, or joint come unglued in the 20+ years I've been mounting fascia this way. If they do "pop"...it's not like drywall, because of the 1/8" layer of hardboard on top of them so there would be no visual clue. This is an extremely sturdy method of attaching fascia, and because my layout is portable and gets taken to shows regularly now, when we're moving things around at the shows, the fascia is often used to lift the modules and reposition them...without ANY ill effects or mysterious cracking and groaning. If they were going to come unglued or separate from the fascia gussets and 2X2 fascia supports, they would have done it long ago. Cheers! Bob Gilmore
Otto, Good question. I suppose we'd have to define what "a lot" means! Haha! Yes, of course, ANY extra wood (braces, gussets, risers, etc.) add weight, which is especially noticeable to an old fart like me who is struggling to set these up by myself sometimes at home. There is no way that my modules could be considered "lightweight" because of several things, such as their length and depth (roughly 3' X 6'), the integral folding legs, and particularly the splined Masonite subroadbed. If a module builder were concerned about shaving a few pounds off of his modules, he could conceivably just use one layer of 1/8" hardboard for his fascias, smooth side out, and then fill and sand the screw-head holes. However, from a structural standpoint, the single layer hardboard fascia is much much less stable than two layers glued together. So, there's a trade off, and transportation damage would probably be much greater. For home use on a non-portable layout, there's no rope going around the layout to keep people away from the fascia, so the extra weight would be greatly offset by the doubling (more likely quadrupling) of the fascias strength and stability achieved by simply gluing and clamping on that second layer. Since I actually use the fascia on my modules as a structural element, and lift them by the fascia regularly when setting up and breaking down, the extra weight is worth it to me. And...I have an equally model railroad obsessed 25 year old son to help out! The Lincoln Highway underpass's bridges are finished now and are about as close as I could scratch-build 'em to the real things since all I have for references are several photos I took of them before they got replaced by new bridges about two years ago. I ran 'em at the March Hostler's show, and I still have to finish the convoluted concrete bridge abutments that (luckily) are still in place on the prototype for me to measure and reference. They were my first experience with using Archer resin rivet decals, and I had a hell of a time getting the decals to position without the decal film breaking. Nobody else seems to have that problem with them, so maybe I just got a defective sheet. Cheers! Bob Gilmore
Not sure what you mean...Are you saying you glue a patch of masonite across the two large facia pieces in their back, like a seam, first ?(sort of like soldering 2-3 lengths of flex track together before bending to a curve) ? If so, is this only if you know curved section facia will be composed of 2 or more lengths (not where tangents are ) ? Or, do you/we glue patches behind all sections (so that ends line-up neatly) ? Thanks again.......... OOPS !! Sorry , I didn't notice I was in a second page of this thread and meant this post to be 11th in line, in reply to 'hytec' on page 1... Mark
