Questions from a curious 'newbie'. I have been learning a lot about Z gauge thanks to your help and the vast threads here to work my way through. To bring myself up to speed on the latest state of play, I have questions about motors and latest technology. Early Marklins Z used 3 pole motors, these were phased out around the 2000's (I think?) for 5 pole motors. I have learned 5 pole motors have been phased out as well? What is the latest motor technology used, and how does it differ from the 3/5 pole motors? Are the 'can' motors and what does that mean? How do these work with DCC? Thank you for your input,
As a follow up question, I am happy that my vintage locos appear healthy and run strongly (albeit intermittently). Being vintage I am sure replacement 'original parts' motors are long gone. Should a motor die, what would be the option to replace/upgrade it or will my loco become nice scenery additional displays on the layout?
Go to z scale hobo dot com and view the marklin spares list. you will see various marklin can motors, some of which marklin is producing to replace the existing open armature motors in old locos. Ask Frank, owner, he may know marklins replacement schedule for locos in which you are interested in replacing the motors. but first you should take a trip through marklin's motor history first the three pole: "In 1978, a Märklin Z scale locomotive pulling six coaches made its entry into the Guinness Book of World Records by running nonstop for 1,219 hours, and travelling a distance of 720 km (450 mi) before the train stopped due to failure of the motor." you should definitely replace your three pole if they are nearing the 450 miles or 1,219 hours marks to prevent a catastrophic train wreck which may injure the Z scale passengers traveling in any of the six coaches pulled. 1999 the five pole arrives, but marklin loses interest in trying to set new longevity records with it. wonder why? 2017, the cans arrive, per z scale hobo website they seem to be cheaper to buy for replacement than 5 poles! But here is a hmm from one of the first users: "with the new steam loco 88974 featuring the new (can) motor. Inexplicably this loco stops dead in its tracks on a clean oval test track after running well for a few minutes, it will resume running in the opposite direction before returning to running forward until it stops again. Problem solving with the traditional motor is easy with the new (can motored) one it is more elusive." https://ztrainsweekly.com/2017/10/26/new-propulsion-marklins-foray-into-brushless-motors/ And Marklin publishes the word on their can motors: from the 88025 manual: "Note: Due to the miniaturization of the vehicle, continuous operation is not recommended." From 1,219 hours continuous running on a 3-pole pulling six passenger coaches, to 'don't do that!' on a new marklin can motor. And that lil bug doesn't even have a coupler! perhaps the finest marklin can motor'ed locs will turn out to be the ones AZL made for marklin: https://ztrainsweekly.com/category/azl-repair-notes/
I have 7 of the Christmas Train 4-6-0 with the new bell-shaped armature motors. I have been running them for extended periods of time without any problem. I have replaced some of the 3/5-pole motors with the new motors also without any problem. Now I can run the 2, 4-6-2 Pacifics I converted all day without any problem. I do the same with the 0-6-0 locos that I converted.
Adrian, You may also want to check out this sight, if not already mentioned. http://www.zscale.org/ Thom, Regarding updating Marklin steam locos with new cans, ddi you run into any issues? Are you interested in posting a thread regarding putting in the new can motor? Scott
I replaced one of the 5 pole motors from a Marklin Mikado with one of the replacement upgrade Marklin Can motors, and to be honest, the older 5 pole seems more powerful, and a bit quieter. The can motor has a high pitch squeel that I find annoying, however the 3 pole and 5 pole motor are sure to kill any DCC decoder I install. I bought 10 motoes to upgrade a number of Mikado's and Pacific's from my Marklin steam collection, and hope I get better, quieter results in the future. I have burnt out every decoder I have tried with the 5 pole motors including Lenz Silver, Lenz Gold, Digitrax DZ123, DZ126, and TSC Z2. I finally got a clue, and discovered that every time I burnt a decoder on a Marklin 5 pole motor it was when I was changing direction of the loco. The brushes are wobbly, and there is a point in their wobble that those brushes generate a pure short circuit that takes out the H Bridge of any decoder.
Thanks Scott, I started this z upgrade journey with zscale.org. which is a wealth of info, however, this site appears to have been last updated around 2010 which is how I came to this site in search of more info. Thanks Sumgai, just the background info I was looking for and great info, I will go looking that direction.
Adrian, You are correct about Do It Yourself Z Scale not being updated, but it does have some timeless topics, like track work. And if you are sticking with pole motors, like me, it helps. Scott
This is an interesting development that Marklin is developing and selling Can style motors to replace 5 pole motors in older locos. Hopefully someone who does a conversion will post their experience. There are lots of posts over the years of motor "upgrades" but they are almost all out of my skill level requiring milling machines etc. I imagine Marklin will not be able to do this for all locos but rather certain types. Lucky you if the unobtainable 5 pole motor you need is available in a can I think there was a while when Marklin first introduced can (bell shaped armature) motors when there were teething issues but they seem to have them running well now in all new releases. I got a Marklin steamer from the first releases that had a sealed motor but showed a 5 pole in the manual, so there is hope. Lucky for me I don't run mine enough to wear out motors, not one yet. But I have replaced some brushes.
I have only done 1 conversion so far, but I bought 10 motors so will try again. The pulling power is weaker and the motor noise is shrill and obnoxious on the Mikado I did. Lets hope I have better results next time.
The guys over in Germany have developped what they call "Motorhalters", i.e. brass frames for CAN motors to drop into your locomotive. Most where 3D printed in brass by amateur enthousiast and sold via pre-ordering through the Z-freunde-international forum. Two are currently offered by Jorg Erkel in his shop: https://www.1zu220-shop.de/OBZ:.:100072.html, but I think Jorg isn't shipping internationally anymore (not even to me, in neighbouring Holland...). The fellow that made these is Olli (Oliver) and goes by BlueYellow on this Z-freunde forum: https://f.z-freunde-international.d...&style=1&sid=5cb09c22454598a456d7eb69f333c52b (join for free to see). Some of Olli Motorhalters require indeed milling, others are plain drop in. Another Z-Freund, Otti, made one as well and sells them via his private website, for BR89, V60, BR24 and the likes: https://zotti.lena-johannson.de/produkt/messinghalterung-fuer-glockenankermotor-v60 I haven't tried any of them but have read positive reactions. This youtube clip shows how it is implemented: Matt
I knew it was only a matter of time that's just a 3D printed version of my 0-6-0 upgrade that was printed in Z track Magazine a few years ago. https://www.ztrack.com/back-issues/back-issues-digital/2021-back-issues-digital/27-6-Digital
I have created four different mounts to hold a can motor onto a Marklin chassis. You might have seen these before (old picture). The back two on the right involve no modifications, possibly the middle left as well. They are SLA parts. The ones on the right fit on the 4-6-0 and 2-6-0 chassis. Scott Note, anyone interested in the mounts, I can send you the STL file. They are based on Nigel's can motors.
I note the comments on the German item site that smooth running was not guaranteed with the change, but if the old armatures are burnt out it is a great way to keep the loco rolling. Thanks guys for reposting thsi for a newbie like me.
In my opinion these new motors are a step back from old 5 pole ones. I can't say 5 pole motors are bad. I have never had any problems with them. The only reason why they would facilitate new motors is that they can be ordered in China to save production costs. As far as I understand new motors are faster but have lower torque which is not nice for trains at all as we need more smooth moving and accelerating trains.
I run my trains at home almost every waking hour almost every day. I have already run the trains with the new motors far longer than I've ever been able to run the locomotives with the 3/5-pole motors. I've cleaned armatures and changed brushes more that I care to mention. While I wish more things were made here in the U.S., I buy what I want when I think it's the product I want to do the job I need it to do. I have modeled in Z scale since Marklin introduced it in 1972. I've converted, modified and scratch-built. I find the new motors to be a good value and worth the effort to replace my 3/5-pole motors.
