Things we do when not into serious modelling! I just set up two tracks end to end and powered them so that locos would go in opposite directions. On one track I put an old Kato GP38 and on the other a new Atlas GP40 (which I understand is the same mechanism for their GP38). I connected them with a rubberband at the couplers and turned on the power. The Kato dragged the GP40 without hesitation. Then I put two GP40s up against the GP38 and it still out pulled them! My Kato 38s run as good as the newer models and pull the paint off of a barn door. People are dumping them on ebay and I just got a pair (New) for about $40.00 each. O.K. so I wasted everybody's time this morning, but I am in pursuit of the Nobel Prize in Train-ology!
I've said for some time now that Atlas was purposely under building their equipment! Heck a Kato built GP30 will out pull an Atlas China built GP30 any day of the week. But them it seems Kato hasn't been putting enough eye-candy on their engines and that means more in todays market than flawless purfromance and pulling ablity
I'm wondering if the reduced pullng power of todays engines might be related to EPA mandated changes. Lead is not exactly held in high esteem by the EPA. Gasoline and paint no longer contain it. The insurance industry got burned big on asbestos and after the product liability claims for lead based paint they are not happy with lead in any form in products. Some companies won't even write any coverage for you unless you get the lead out. Just a thought.
I expected this lead statement to come up. If that is the case then how come Katos still weigh more? I seriously doubt Kato has had to change their formulations. If you'd do a side-by-side comparison of similar sized mechanism's you'll find this out. I think these are tests that most could perform for themselves it can be a real eye-opener.
I have heard that some companies are reluctant to hand out pay checks, unless you get the lead out! (OK I'll crawl back to my cave!)
Only way to find out is to do a chemical analysis of the weight used. Maybe Kato is using a weight with more lead content. If so, they are taking on a significant risk. EPA standards are not the same world wide. Also the USA is far more litigious a than Japan. If Kato is using a high lead content in their weight then I can assure you that one lead poisoning lawsuit in the USA will cause them to get the lead out. Lead is nasty stuff. There is no antidote for lead poisoning. It will accumulate in the body. If any of you are into milling frames for DCC you better be taking ample precautions.
I'm 72 now, and have been casting pure plumber's lead toy soldiers, parts for railroads, displays and prototypes for companies I have worked for, and boilers up to a little over 4 and a half pounds since I was around seven. I have worked with babbit, cerro-bend, printer's type metal, pot metal, antimony, and pewter, as well as molten brass, aluminum and various steel alloys. My health is still good, and I sleep well during the day (because I glow in the dark and set off airport alarms), but other than that, I have no effects from lead. Well, there is one thing maybe. I can solder wires together when I spit on them and apply a soldering iron, but that may be from too much Mexican food's acid. My breath will occasionally rust steel, and I hear radio stations from the fillings in my two remaining teeth. So where was the EPA when all us kids bought lead melting kits as toys?
**ROTFLMBO** Watash, that was hilarious!!! My dad has been casting his own lead bullets, and slugs, fishing weights, and ingots for years. He doesn't seem to have any health complications, but he does take the right precautions. He always taught me to wash my hands after handling the lead, now I know why. I know a lot more, after being in Uncle Sam's service, with the govm't reg's, and laws that we have to adhere to. There's so much stuff we have do just to dispose of a paper towel with a little Zinc Chromate primer on it! Some of the chemicals and solvents we use require so much protective equipment to use.... Not to mention some of the red tape it takes to get that stuff.. It's all for our benefit, and health, I guess... Shoot, back in the day, we used to use laquer thinner and Xylene without gloves, and MEKwithout any gloves! Now, we need to use a respirator, gloves, goggles/face shield, and an apron to use the stuff... Gasoline is a super paint cleanup solvent, and works great on removing about anything! OOPS! Did I say that out loud?
Havent done much pull testing since the first run of dash 9's came out. Back then my friends life-like F-units could outpull the dash 9's. Those LL f-units were some very heavy locos.
I was a compositor in the printing trade for 20 years, handling lead type daily, and for the last umpteen years, until last year, I have used lead-based solders building O scale and #1 scale locomotives, without any (apparent) effect. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but way back then, we always washed our hands after work, although we would have done whatever job we had been doing, as it is normal hygiene. And Watash, I don't glow in the dark
Speaking of heavy metal, does anybody remember the "Cotton Brute" built by Jim FitzGerald of Ntrak fame? It was made with depleted uranium (a bit heavier than lead) and was run at Ntrak meets to pull monster trains. I've been putting lead weights in my HO and N rolling stock for years, and so far, so good. Of course, I wash my hands after I'm finished, so I reduce the risk of lead poisoning. Just how does one get lead poisoning from a locomotive aside from chewing on the weight or not washing his or her hands after working on the engine?
Lead poisoning from hobby work is hard to come by, unless you are milling, and creating fine dust, and eating your double Whopper w/ cheese at the same time... I remember the 'Cotton Brute' discussions. DU is VERY dense, and heavier by volume than Lead. Mallory metal, an alloy used to balance automotive crankshafts is heavy, and altho I am uncertain of its composition, it'd make a great loco frame, and holds up to heat well *in race engines, even!* The only drawback is its expense. A few ounces of it can cost about 300$ US, or more, I am uncertian of the cost, also, but if money were no object, one could make a loco frame that would outpull the Cotton Brute, or a gang of SD90MACs.... Only Osmium, a pure element that is the heaviest element known to man owuld be heavier. A brick-sized chunk weighs ore than 150#!!!!
So? Back to the subject at hand, why is Atlas making their loco's lighter than their compitition? could it have something to do with increasing sales? I'm not sure I'd want to have ten Atlas 38's vs. my five Kato 38's on my sixty car coal train (50' hi-side thrall gons)
Back to the non-topic, here's a link for all of you that think model railroading is "safe": Safe Modelling . Back to the non-topic redux (sounds like a movie): A source of tungsten powder, if you want to try weighting your locos with it, is a golf pro shop! Or online at: Golfsmith Now back to your scheduled topic, already in progress. [ 26 February 2002, 05:41: Message edited by: Bill Kamery ]
My humble suggestion would be to contact Atlas. Not the forum- you'll only stir up a potload of trouble. Rather, email Paul Graf at Atlas.
