Your 1950 Ford is probably all-steel, which is a plus, but it doesn't incorporate new technology like crumple zones and a passenger compartment with enhanced survivability in an accident. When I was a wee lad, you heard all the time about steering columns crushing drivers to death, or engines winding up in the front seat in a front-end collision. All those improvements cost a lot of time, testing and money, and today's vehicles reflect those investments. Both in cost and safety.
I like that Atlas has the 2 different lines....Trainman and Master. The problem there is...Atlas doesnt release enough new stuff in the Trainman Line !! Look at their Master Line... http://www.atlasrr.com/newn.htm then look at their Tranman Line... http://www.atlastrainman.com/atmntrainman.htm Now you know why everyone is B******* !! If we want anything desireable we have to pay $20.00 more EACH to get a car we want....and get it in the Master Line !! And its not just Atlas. BLMA ( for example ) never did make a 'lower end' anything ! There are a lot more manufacturers not making things for the "Average" Modeler...just for those with deep pockets. SOoooooooooooo...we ( the average modeler ) have the right to ******. We cant afford the really good stuff that has a wide variety to choose from...and...the pickings are slim on the lower end stuff ! I suppose the old adage "Money talks all others walk." Is the mantra of almost every manufacturer. BTW...I dont begrudge anyone for having 'deep pockets'. I just wish those same people could see the other side of the coin and at least have a smidgin of empathy. JMO...thank you. **I do have some friends here who have deep pockets and they have helped me out numorous times and I do appreciate them...more then I tell them I am sure. *** I am not really looking for handouts ( I will take em though...lol )...just the understanding of what we...the average modeler...are up against with manufactures who could care less !
Lots of reasons. Think about it. Labor costs have gone up. Shipping costs have gone up. Material costs have gone up. Advertising costs have gone up. Government regulations. Some railroads require LICENSING AGREEMENTS that add cost to each car. Most companies have a higher research cost because we demand more accurate paint schemes which also raise the price. Maintenance on the molds. Updated trucks that have a higher cost vs the old Rapido coupler trucks. Storage cost and taxes on inventory. Employee costs. Even if you have a 30 year old mold that is in pristine shape, add everything else up and the cost of a car can double or even triple over time. Look at Micro-Trains as an example. They are still using some molds from the 70s. The cost of each car was partially based on the number of colors and how complicated the paint scheme was. Look at one of the first cars EVER released by Kadee Micro Trains, 20010 Grand Trunk Western 516798 released in November 1972 for the whopping cost of $7.95. The last release (November 2014) costs $19.95. Same mold, same car, the only thing different is the cost of doing business has gone up over time. Manufacturers have to raise their prices to stay in business because they are in the business to make money. If they don't make enough money to survive then the car that used to cost $8.95 will not be available at any price new because the company will be out of business. Rant over, not a flame, just food for thought. P.S. I agree Accumate couplers are not an enhancement for me because I change every thing over to Micro Trains couplers anyway but for a newbe, at least he/she can couple all of his cars together and run them.
True.except...they put the steering box behind the wheels on these. It was the GM's and Willys and Chryslers that had them in front. You hit somebody with this car, you go through them. Don't need no crumple zones. Just steel. Oh...and mine is US made..like my Lionel, my Mantua, old Athearn, PennLine, English...even, geez, ScaleCraft.
This is all true. It is important to realize what goes into production and business. All of the things that have to be taken into account drive up prices. You can't complain about corporate profits. That's what keeps businesses alive and kicking, setting aside the issue of their right to do as they please and that they will provide the best product for the lowest price if they want to stay in business. Businesses can't survive breaking even. One thing goes wrong and production stops. Large corporate profits should be celebrated, not derided. Profits are what are sunk into developing new products and technologies that make model railroading better and cheaper. I love all of the new developments and additions. I can't install a sound decoder. I can't scratch build a K4. The companies do it for me, and I should expect to pay more for it. I like to buy well-built equipment to dirty it up myself and run it. That's what I like about model railroading, not taking a year to build my own locomotive (it would not look or run like the Bmanns do, I'll tell you that). To be honest, I'm surprised model railroading has done so well. It is a testament to how much some people love their trains. I would hate to go back to the 70s. I have seen that equipment, and I will take the better but more expensive any day. Don't even get me started on the "produce a generic model and slap Pennsylvania on the side" stuff. Belapaire fireboxes, high headlights and keystones are what make something Pennsy, not the road name on the tender. Also, give me the option between a $30 Trix K4 and the $230 Bmann K4 and I will take the Bmann any day of the week, no matter how many more pizzas I have to deliver. Model railroading is going somewhere. You don't have to stay along for the ride, but don't complain about being left behind. One last thought: What is the longevity of our new models? I would consider the 70s-80s stuff obsolete, as they can't be taken seriously anymore. But how long will our new locomotives and rolling stock last? My guess is a long time. Decoders can adapt. The construction and quality control are a lot better. Plus, how much better can little N scale be detailed before it can't be seen anymore? I think our new equipment will last us a long time. It is far more advanced than the primitive equipment that used to be made. I think I will see my locomotives as a legitimate part of my collection thirty years from now.
Can't there be a K4 model somewhere in between those two extremes, built and priced like the Kato Mikado?
As a 30 year old I can tell you the price is killing me. Alot of guys my age are being turned away due to it. $200 for a DC locomotive is ALOT. I would spend $80 but not $200 and $300 for one with dcc sound forget about. I don't own an ipad, ive had the same cell phone for 3 years. When you can't afford the hobby you love your SOL. Trainsets are now around $200 I don't see many parents that can afford that let alone the high school kid that can afford a $30 box car nor the $200 engine. Second hand stuff is still expensive. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Whenever this zombie topic comes back for a sequel, I thank the good lord that I'm mostly into HO, don't need anything better than stock from 15-20 years ago and have plenty of train shows near by to buy it cheap at.
The Arnold Rapido set (train+ oval of track, but without power pack) that "Santa" brought me ~40 years ago sold for about $25, which corresponds to about $175 today. Currently, a basic Kato freight train set goes for about $100 and an M1 track set (with power pack) is about $75, so the relative prices over nearly four decades have remained quite comparable.
There is also a strong lack of publicity for the hobby. No commercials no youth out reach etc. My club is on deaths door because there aren't any kids involved anymore. The teens see the older gents and they get turned off by it. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
The retailer we can't mention here has several Athearn HO sets (including track and power pack) on sale for $130. Nevertheless, this is the N scale forum.
Now the world is right and spinning back on its axis like it should. I finally read the thinly veiled "If you cant afford it get out of the hobby" comment.
It shouldn't be thay way though. Everyone who wishes should be encouraged and allowed to participate in such a great hobby. If I had the funds I would damn well provide a product line that a kid could find at any store with a toy section and be able to find it affordable. Toy stores and large market retailers don't offer this anymore. No hobby sections etc. Again back to the bad publicity and marketing. This hobby has taught me so very much. Electricity, carpentry, etc how to think outside of the box and how to have a sense of imagination. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Yes, it is the N scale forum but this effects all scales not just N scale. It's the hobby as a whole. That's not just the only retailer there are several doing the same thing. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
In fact, when considering only new, HO's pricing has gotten significantly worse compared to N. I wish $25 would buy a higher end car in 2016. We're looking at $40 now. It's good that train set pricing is holding pretty steady though.
And unfortunately we have gone to the rendering plant and fetched that carcass to once again beat it for the umptenth time. Yes there are still problems and as pointed out some of them are our own doing. One thing not taken into account by folks is available disposable income. While everything else has risen out here associated with the cost of living, income has not kept pace. And we have gone through a period of large numbers of folks unemployed, the housing bubble popped along with the mortgage crises, and did prices stop rising for the necessary things in life? Simple answer is no. Faced with the choice of buying that $150 loco or paying my health, dental, auto insurance, and home insurance it is the $150 loco that gets put on the back burner. Will model railroading go away in the middle of all this? I doubt it. Will this thread once again rear it ugly head a few months down the line again. Most surely. I have the benefit of having more than a few decades under my belt. And during that time I saw slot cars come into being and take over from model railroading. Also radio controlled planes, cars, and boats. Now slot cars are hardly spoken of anymore, and the number of kids with a radio controlled car or plane are a rare sighting, but model railroading is still here. As far as costs go I took a little internet trip to my favorite dealer. I can still get cars at $8-$9 and locos from $50 to $80. Sure without all the bells, whistles and smoke. But they are good enough for me. And what happened to the model in model railroading as some body here previously said. There have been numerous articles in the trade magazines on building your own cars and structures. And there folks is the fun in this hobby. The quiet relaxing evenings of an hour or so creating a something in miniature and the feeling of accomplishment when you do. And Evergreen and Plastruct still make stryrene shapes and sheets. They even make N scale car siding. And does one really need all those locomotives? How many can one run at one time and keep track of? Is it the mentality of who has the most toys when they die taking over? And is all those electronic gizmos really worth the time and money, not to mention the headaches of the constant malfunctions, which I see here reported every month at length. So I continue on in the hobby happy with my little consist on the main behind a triple headed power lash-up that cost me less than $150-60 for for my power lash-up of three locos. And a lot of those cars in tow where acquired at reduced prices over time, the details of which cannot be seen because they are in movement. Here and there are some of the more detailed cars sitting in siding at the forefront to gaze upon. The old layout was populated by kit built and scratch built structures that are far better than the ready built ones. As to the future I will continue to purchase the occasional item through my discount supplier and will increasingly purchase items direct from Japan because it is cheaper even with the shipping.
Yes there are many costs in manufacturing and marketing and those costs are not item specific. Meaning those costs apply to the hopper in question as well as the locomotives. But we see that the locomotives have only increased in price 10% of what the hopper car has. Now explain that to us. The only explanation that is viable is the one I proposed. The companies are either by choice or by force limiting production of rolling stock causing their fixed costs to be allocated to fewer items causing those items to have a higher cost loading. That cost loading is then passed on to the customer as higher prices. When you go from mass production to limited production your costs do not scale down accordingly. Your fixed costs remain constant and the only way you have to recover them is to increase prices.
I'd say at least 65% of my collection is from the last 10-15 years. And a good bit in the last 5-7 years. Sometimes price is a problem, but if I don't have to have it, I wait. With stores, online and brick/mortar, not wanting items sitting in inventory or shelves, they are constantly putting stuff on sale. I wait for it to go on sale and pick it up then. Or I look at the train shows or eBay. The only thing I've missed out on, and this was 15-20 years ago was when woo woo woo issued a special run from Atlas on the GP38-3 Maryland Midland units. I didn't have the money at the time, but thanks to eBay and some friends on train message boards, I've been able to locate 2 of the 3. I am still missing #301, but it will show up eventually. So yes, price can be prohibitive but it's not the end of the hobby. You just need to know where to look and have a little patience. And with companies announcing what they are doing and when they are coming out, if it is something you have to have, you can try to put money aside for it.
