This is for those of you out there that use Polly Scale Flat Finish after decaling and weathering. I use the flat finish to seal the decals. I feel this works very well. Once clear coated you can't see the edges. I've noticed over time though, say a year or more, that the edges of the decals are becoming visible. Now I swear this is not in my head. Also some of the models I've painted black and then clear coated with Polly Scale Flat Finish appear to be graying or "frosting" over the whole model with time. Does anyone know if this finish breaks down over time? I usaually apply a wash over the clear coated model, with thinned Polly Scale acrylics, as a first step in weathering. Does this have an effect on the clear coat put on after decaling? Or maybe on the final clear coat? Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Erik W
Hmm... Maybe it's dust and grime (the full-scale stuff, not the weathering that we apply) accumulating on it? I would give it a wash and see if that greying/frosting comes off. If it doesn't, then it's time to switch to some other finishing product.. I have an engine I painted in 1992 sealed with Floquil CrystalCote and Floquil Flat Finish... There has been no degradation of the finish after 14 years.
For the weathering. what do you thin the wash with? In fact, assuming you airbrush the basic car color on, what are you thinning that with? You may have have cut through the Flat Finish coat especially around the edges of decals -- how many coats of Flat Finish do you use? To get rid of the frosting you might respray with Gloss Finish then Flat Finish. You'll make the weathering less prominent, but you can always fix that. Then again, prototype black cars often gray like you describe. Maybe you want to keep a few "weathered" that way? I've been using the Polly Scale clear coats myself for 10 years and have not encountered such a problem with them.
For Polly Scale Flat, Spray out of the bottle, no thinning required. Stir it up good otherwise it will have a foggy hue to it after it is applied. Spray it with a large needle #3 or a red or white Aztek nozzle and shoot it at 16-18 PSI. I let the Clear coat cure at least a day before wheathering. I have loco's that have this technique going on 4-5 years and they look just as good now as then. Are you using decal solvent? Let the decals cure at least a few hours before clear coating. I usally wait a day. I had the same curling happen to me when I sprayed the clear right after the decal was applied. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me off line, jwiggin@testors.com I use this stuff on a daily basis.
If you are using Pollyscale Flat Finish, I presume no one here wants to use Dullcote? (I use Dullcote, but I will try the Pollyscale.) Can you effectively apply the Pollyscale Flat Finish with a brush over small decals or repainted areas? Thanks.
Yes. Dullcoat is flat. Floquil Flat is more satin, it is a good approximation of a scaled down prototypical gloss finish. Afterall, railroads don't dullcoat their equipment. Weathering will take care of excess shine.
Floquil is oil based. We had started asking questions about Pollyscale Flat Finish which is water based, I believe.
Nothing wrong for me with Dullcote, but there are people having problems in the last couple of years with getting spots of haze/graying with it (from spray cans). My guess (and guess only) is that it is drying too fast and dry points are sort of crystallizing the finish around them. Never heard of this problem before, so the second guess is that the solvent formula has been changed. With decals, I do the belt-and-suspenders kind of thing by using gloss under them after painting with Polly Scale and then sealing the decals with gloss (easier to see problems and sometimes hide them). Then I coat with flat.
First, I like to use Polly Scale Flat because the sheen is more like a well maintained loco, but not toy like. Dullcote is just that, dead flat I dare say the deadest flat out there. I have even used the Model Master Acryl Flat with great results, however the wearability is not as good as the Polly Scale. I stay away from enamel clears as they will yellow with time. Since I attend many N-Trak shows, UV light always seams to be in attendance. Dullcote lacquer does not yellow like enamel. The Polly Scale acrylic clears are only 15 years old so no research has been done. That said some of my locomotives and rolling stock is going on six years now are still looking good with no fogging or other ill effects. Flash, I have seen your work and it looks great. I always use the first rule of custom painting. Use what works for you. For me it is faster and easier to shoot the Polly Scale flat through the airbrush. I'm not very talented with a spray bomb Steamghost, I'm not the category manager of Model Master but I know the formula has not changed. Going back to my Customer Service days here at Testor, if the dullcote turns foggy, the solvents have not been thouroghly stirred. If it seams to crystalize, either the can was not shaken up or there is an impurity in the solvent. Any time you think you have a product that did not work right and you followed the instructions, please let us know. We are here to help.
OK one last thing then I promise to shut up Next time you spray Polly Scale, mix your color 50% 50% with Polly Scale Gloss Clear and a drop of Polly Scale Thinner, and shoot at 16-18 PSI. The clear acts as a flow inducer and it will give you a good base to decal on. After you finish decaling just seal it up with Polly Scale Flat or Model Master Dullcote. Just give the decals at least 12 hours to set up.
I have one issue with the Pollyscale flat. No airbrush...I presume that since it isn't solvent based it wouldn't be available in rattlecans?...So Floquil or testors for me. Can't shell out the bucks for an airbrush right now. The CFO would have a screaming hissy fit if I did...
Everyone does things differently and does what works for them. I do use dullcote and I do like it, but I want to get away from solvent based paint entirely. (Dullcote is the only solvent I use at this time.) I have some covered hoppers I am going to decal for a project, so I will use Polyscale flat on them and see how it works. I use dullcote because it works for me but also because I dread the airbrush prep and cleaning up. It's a hassle, but I need to get over that. I will try BNSF7173s mixing tips and see how that works. I do use 50-55 psi to spray; wonder if that will make a difference? I will try it both ways in a few weeks. [edit] At this time I am painting with Badger Modelflex, Pollyscale Model RR colors, Badger Accuflex, the older Polly S paints, Testor's Accuflex, and various artist's acrylics (Delta, Apple Barrel, Americana, etc.). I use windshield washer fluid to thin these. In clear flat I have Badger Accuflex, Badger Modelflex, and Model Master "Acryl." I have not liked any of them. Maybe others have had more success. For solvents, they are all in rattle spray cans (Krylon, Rustoleum, American Tradition, Color-Place, Model Master, and Testors military flats) and are used for buildings. The spray cans put out so much paint it is hard to control. [ February 22, 2006, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Flash Blackman ]
I use Dullcote on all of my rolling stock, and I haven't had any of the problems with it that others have reported, but I do use it with an airbrush, not from the rattle can. That may be the difference. Over the years the Dullcote can yellow just a bit, but other than on pure white cars it has not been noticeable. Even on the white cars, unless you are trying to duplicate a car fresh from the paint shop, most prototype white cars yellow some too. I do think it (Dullcote) is too flat for prototype Locos that are washed and maintained though, and the Pollyscale gives a better approximation of that sheen.
One thing I should explain is the reason why I spray at such a low PSI. When I use my Aztek A470 or (Takes a quick look to make sure Testor is not reading ) My Badger 150, I found that after a few minutes of spraying Polly Scale with higher PSI, the airbrush would start to spit then clog. Because of the JTW custom paint thing, it is not uncommon for me to spray five locomotives at a time. Basically I have found that the higher the PSI the more air passes through the nozzle or needle, when the air passes over the opening for the paint, you want the paint to flow as a liquid, not as a semi dried fluid. Acrylics dry differently than solvent based paints and the movement of dry air helps them dry faster. This is why I can use a hair dryer on a low setting to "force dry" Polly Scale and Badger paints. By using a bit of Polly Scale thinner which has a reducer, and setting the presure down, it allows just enough air to deliever the paint but without it drying before it gets to the model. I have had many modelers stumped at the smoothness of my models when I tell them it is acrylic. Once I show them my technique the light bulb comes on. Also keep in mind that acrylics need a larger opening to go through, so my (looking over his shoulders again) Badger I use a #3 needle and my Aztek I use a White or Black nozzle for small areas and Red for medium areas and Orange or Yellow nozzles for larger areas. I hope Jim's Thursday morning lesson/rant is making sense. By the way if any of you have a question please feel free to contact me at jwiggin@testors.com I'm not just a brand manager, but a modeler too!
I just applied PollyScale flat finish with a brush both full strength and 50 percent diluted with [edit] windshield washer fluid. The results are excellent. I like the 50 percent diluted better. I presume airbrushing will be even better. It may not be as "dull" as dullcote, but it is pretty close, IMHO. Thanks to BNSF7173 for pointing out this technique. The other bottled flat finishes I mentioned before did not do well for me and I am certainly glad to know about PollyScale flat finish. [ February 28, 2006, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Flash Blackman ]
After 30 years in the hobby, I finally got an airbrush. I found the info posted here to be pricless! Thanks guys!! I have several paint projects lined up, and after a little more practice, I think I'll be ready. I have used Pollyscale for years and love it. I have been using it in the Airbrush on some of my practice projects and still love it. One Question, Flash, Windshield washer fluid to thin Polly Scale?? Brilliant!! as a bottle of PS Thinner was 8 bucks and WWF is .99 a gallon! I'm not broke, just Cheep
Flash, glad I could help you, I always enjoy viewing your great models. Greg: Yeah I know the PS thinner is high $, but the reason I use it is because it has a reducer and helps the flow of the paint. In less dry conditions I have had good results with bottled water as a thinner, it drys faster. Besides my last bottle of PS thinner lasted me almost five years and I custom paint when not here at work.
