Hi all, Did the Wabash ever serve Pittsburgh? A birds-eye-view map that appeared in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review showed a "Wabash RR" bridge across the Monongahela River...but I haven't seen much material on the Wabash. Plus I am cautious about material I see. Look forward to hearing from ya' Nick BTW, if it ws the Wabash, the piers to the bridge and the tunnel through Mt. Washington are still around.
Nick, the Wabash Railroad, as we knew it, did not extend to Pittsburgh. What you may have seen was a bridge for the former Wabash-Pittsburgh Terminal RR which was a part of the Jay Gould dream of expanding the Wabash to the Atlantic seaboard. Wabash trains ran from Toledo (on the Wabash system) over the tracks of the Wheeling & Lake Erie to Pittsburgh Junction, thence 60 miles over the Wheeling-Pittsburgh Terminal RR to Pittsburgh. A bit like run-thru trains of today. p.s. Quite possibly the bridge said Wabash RR, as that's who was responsible for building this line, and were proud to display the Wabash name. ------------------ "Follow the Flag" [This message has been edited by wabash_one (edited 20 July 2000).] [This message has been edited by wabash_one (edited 20 July 2000).]
Thanks! Though I have two more questions: Did this line primarily carry freigh or passengers, or both? When was this line built? Your post really cleared up a lot of confusion Nick
correction: change Wheeling-Pittsburgh Terminal RR to: Wabash-Pittsburgh Terminal RR in the second post. Must have had Wheeling on my mind....sorry! ------------------ "Follow the Flag"
Nick, I have not forgotten. Just got back home. Will give you the complete heads-up tomorrow. Thanks. ------------------ "Follow the Flag"
Hi Nick, as promised, here we go. The WPT was basically a freight carrying railroad, and mostly coal and steel. But there were carded some important passenger trains, especially #16 eastbound and # 19 westbound. #16 was scheduled to leave St. Louis (on the Wabash system) at 12:30pm, and ran head-to-head against the PRRs New York Limited. #16 took 18 hours to Pittsburgh, and the NYL was scheduled for 17hrs, 25 min. Westbound. #19 left Pittsburgh at 7:30pm and arrived in St. Louis at 1:44 the next day. Both trains carried Pullmans from/to Chicago, set out at Montpelier, as there was no direct Pittsburgh-Chicago-Pittsburgh service. Both Goulds had targeted St. Louis as their system focal point, so that would explain the better service to/from St. Louis. As far as freight goes, before the WPT was fully in place, Gould, through the Pittsburgh-Toledo Syndicate entered an agreement with Andrew Carnegie (who was trying to break the stranglehold on his steel shipments out of Pittsburgh by the B&O and PRR), to ship about 25% of his westbound steel traffic on the WPT. (as memory serves me, but it may have been higher with a 25% min.) This agreement fell apart after J.P. Morgan bought out Carnegie, and created USSteel. Also the agreement permitted the WPT to connect with the USS owned Union RR. Coal traffic was heavy, as I seem to remember there being 80 coal mines served by the WPT, in that short space of 60 miles. Eventually there was a connection established at Connellsville, with the Western Maryland for even more traffic. By this time the railroad was known as The Pittsburgh & West Virginia Railway. The Wabash-Pittsburgh Terminal was opened in 1904. From what I've read, it was a teriffic undertaking, as all the easy westbound routes from Pittsburgh were already taken. Thus many high bridges and tunnels were required, which made it very expensive. Some have said it's high costs helped contribute to the younger Goulds downfall. It seems like it would be a great steam-era railroad to model. Mountains, tunnels, slow heavy freight drags, high-stepping Atlantics......what more could a modeler want? I hope this helps you Nick. There has been much written on such a small railroad, maybe because of it's strategic importance to the grand designs of two generations of the Gould family. Good luck, Bill p.s if you wish to do further research, let me know and I'll try to supply you with some resources. ------------------ "Follow the Flag"
Thanks wabash_one, thats a more than I expected...i asked for an ID and i got train schedules...ah, I love railroading!!! This does bring up another question though (yes, another, its just a habit of mine) Did the WPT become the P&WV through a merger, take over, or just a corporate name change? Nick
Ah, the dreaded B word that has plagued so many small railroads... Thanks wabash_one, you've cleared up a lot! Nick
You're welcome. Glad to help. p.s. I included the skeds for #16 & 19 to show the importance that Gould placed on the St.Louis-Pittsburgh market, and his attempt to go head-to-head with the Pennsy.....no easy task! ------------------ "Follow the Flag"
An article in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review stated that on February 4, 1904, Pittsburgh City Council voted to allow the Wabash Railroad to enter the city. Thats paraphrased of course, I have no idea where the article is but i remember the point of it. An interesting little tidbit... -Nick
Was the Wabash Cannon Ball just a song, or was there a real train (passenger?) by that same name? The song is one of my favorites. If it was a real train, what was the engine. a 4-8-4?
Yes Wayne, there really was a train known as the Wabash Cannonball. Although it didn't travel to all the places that the song implies, it did run between Detroit and St. Louis, and was quite noteworthy in it's own right. If you would like to see a beautiful painting by Robert West of the "Cannonball" with steam (the Wabash later used E units and PAs), check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1112914337&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=982895733&indexURL=0&rd=1 Hope this helps, Bill
Thanks Wabash-1, I think I have one of these packed away. It is a pacific, and the blue with white stripe ticks my memory. I have received a number of engines for presents over the years, but with no layout at the time, they all stayed in their boxes, and haven't been unpacked yet. I'm building a new layout with a 33 stall roundhouse to keep them in, and to keep the dust off. Someday I'll post photos of all the engines.
