Peco code 55 turnout, trains and locos drop and wobble at frog. any fixes?

That is not so. The Peco Code 80 was designed for NEMA standards (European) not NMRA ones. Your wheelsets are not the problem. Rather, the flange ways at the guardrails opposite the frog are too wide thus not guiding the wheelsets properly and allowing the wheel flanges to hit the frog. Get an NMRA gauge and check the flange way at the guardrails. Adding a .010 plastic shim to both guardrails will correct the flange way and properly gauged wheels will roll through the frog with no problems. And if you use any more Peco turnouts, get the code 55 ones.

 

I never said there were NMRA standard, learn to read! Even adding a shim, that I have already tried years ago doesn't work with NMRA gauged wheels. I still have to keep them a little narrow, and it's a lot easier to keep my wheel set a little narrower than to shim over 100 switches. I don't need to purchase a NMRA gauge as I already have one.

 

Well, here is what you wrote before:

"I use all Peco code 80 on my main line, I can not use the NMRA gauge for my wheel sets. They have to be a little narrow or the wheel flange will hit the frog. You can also shim the guard rails in order to use the NMRA standard wheel set width. I don't own any code 55 so I'm not sure if they are the same."

Now you are saying that even adding a shim you still need narrow gauge wheels. Maybe the shim was not thick enough? Rather than argue about it, why don't you take your NMRA gauge (the one you already have) and check the flangeway at the guardrails? If it meets NMRA specs then properly gauged wheels should give you no problems.

 

I can run 30 - 40 car trains for hours without any derailments, I do have one once in a blue moon. Main line is 200' of single track with lots of passing sidings, so the main goes threw a lot of switches. I think I will keep my wheel gauge and switches as they are.
When I use (I) it refers to my model railroad. When I use (you) that refers to what you can do with yours.
I use a lot of wheel sets that have a wider flange, so shimming doesn't work for ME!
If you use all NMRA standard wheel sets that have a thinner flange then shimming will allow the NMRA standard gauge wheel sets to work, Locos included.
Why don't YOU take your NMRA gauge and do some more checking so you understand my point!
My original point was to the OP that he should do some checking first before setting all his wheel set to NMRA standard. Because if he did and the Peco code 55 switches are like the Peco code 80 he's going to get a ton of derailments. Just trying to keep the hobby FUN for the OP and not becoming a huge head ache.

 

So ink I did some measurements, A FVM wheel set to NMRA standards = .353 ths. Peco code 80 switch, from the rail to the point of the frog = .350 ths. the guard rail to rail = .038 ths. To be sure the wheels set was gauged correctly I measured my NMRA gauge and came up with .353 ths. So according to my measurements there is not way you can use NMRA gauged wheels with the Peco code 80 switches that I own. So even with a shim wide enough to hold the wheel against the rail the flange will still hit the point of the frog. I guess I was wrong I always though from what I have read that you could run NMRA standard wheel sets with Peco code 80, I stand corrected. Even with a shim you would still need to gauge wheels to around .330 ths. which would only give you a couple thousands clearance.

 

Well I still don't understand how narrowing the wheel gauge will prevent a wheel from dropping into the frog flangeway. Seems to me that narrowing the gauge would only exacerbate the problem. But, be that as it may model RR Rule #1 applies and you can do it your way. However, my advice to the original poster, 'choochooguy', is (for the third time) to get a NMRA gauge and check the flangeways at the frog and guardrails. I have checked all my Peco C55 switches with the NMRA gauge and they are spot on. But mine are not new. Maybe the newer ones have a manufacturing induced error. I don't know but what I do know is the only way to find out is to use an NMRA gauge to check the clearances. Now that makes four times I said it and that is enough. Oh and when you do check the switches please come back and inform us of the results.

 

Well then please explain how thousands of other people are able to do it? Are you the only person in the parade that is in step? I don't think so. I think it is you who is out of step. To prove that, I went to the NMRA standards page. If, as you state, your track gauge at the frog is .350ths then your track gauge is too narrow. The NMRA standard is .355ths with a tolerance of +.004 or - .002. So your gauge should range between .353 and .359ths not .350ths. Your are running wheels gauged to .353ths through track that is gauged to .350ths. No wonder you are having problems. But hey, Model RR Rule #1 applies.

 

I think I stated that a long long long time ago that I have to gauge my wheels a little on the narrow side because the Peco code 80 switch flange ways are narrower than NMRA standard.
Thanks for trying to help someone that doesn't need help. The big question that I asked was answered a long time ago, Peco code 55 is manufacture to NMRA standards while Peco code 80 isn't.
But really you need to improve your reading skills!

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to help you as it was plain to me that you were satisfied with your solution so my reading skills are just fine. You opted, for whatever reason, to go with a narrower gauge than is recommended by the NMRA. Okay, it is your railroad, do with it as you please. Recall that I did invoke, in prior posts, Model RR Rule #1. I am just pointing out where you deviated from NMRA standards so that others won't do the same thing. But what I am really interested in is the measurements from choochooguy on his C55 switches. I hope he takes them and reports back as I requested. Possibly Peco retooled these switches and the new switch's tolerances are not NMRA compliant. That will affect a lot of people going forward.

 

Well I have seen these issues and the .010 shin on the guard rail solves all the problems regardless of the wheel manufacturer. I run everything thing from MT pizza cutter to BLMA and FVM wheels. All run fine.

I used Peco exclusively for NTrak modules and on all my layouts until I started building my own turnouts and hand laying the track too. They did have a Code 55 Insulated fog slip at one point, I have it on a module right now. All the rest I believe are electrofrog.

 

I actually had to do the same thing with a .010" shim on my old Atlas switches for the diverging route with wheels per NMRA. They would pick the frog point and go the wrong way. It doesn't seem to happen with the straight route but I'm sure that's because there's no real bias going on there.

Doug

 

One thing I have learned is that Peco Insulfrog switches have a narrower flange way than Peco Electrofrog switches. The NMRA gauge will go threw the flange ways with a Electrofrog were is won't a Insulfrog. At least on all my 100+ switch that were purchased between 1990 - 2010.

 

sorry for the long wait for a response...
1. Electrofrogs being used.
2. i use both sizes of flanges, however i'm sure the low profile will wobble more as they have farther to drop in the frog.
3. I did put some modelers putty in the flange floor and then sand to smooth once it dried as it looked like the frogg dloor was lower than the bottom of the rail. this helped a little to reduce wobbling, but I also noticed that the frog gap on the straight thru rail is almost ,5 inches wide!. that is why the wheels are dropping. no rail to roll on.

 

The wheels are not supposed to ride on their flanges through the frogs. Also the .5" rail gap is highly questionable. That scales out to over 6.5 feet in N scale which is more than the track gauge itself. The distance between the frog and the guardrail should be between .030 and .027 inches according to the NMRA standards.

 

Yes, the same thing happens with my Peco switches, the low profile wheels drop down before the frog. I thought about using something to raise the floor but I have a lot of different locos and cars with different size flanges.

 

Choochooguy, I see you are a member of the Orange County N'gineers. Why not bring the switch to them and have them look at it . Surely the club has someone who can address the issues in person far better than we can here.

 

A wider wheel will help, like the FV Wide Tread Wheels. A friend of mine just brought some over to try out, they sure don't look as nice as the standard wheel but do work better with my Peco switches. At least for the wheel coming off of the wing rail before getting on the frog.

 

I'm tooting my whistle a bit late here. After reading through this entire thread I believe I understand the original issue, and how to fix it.

I noticed the wheel drop on PECO Code 55 shortly after running trains on a new build, a couple of years ago. With 70 some turnouts to be installed on the new build I felt it prudent to address the problem immediately rather than later. Then as time went by i procrastinated and the job didn't get done. And for the most part I found the wheel drop far less annoying than the slinky bobblehead effect from MT couplers. That had me seriously thinking about leaving N scale until I began installing McHenry couplers. But, I digress...

I had done some experimenting on used turnouts, adding shims to the bottom of that canyon preceding the frog. It seemed .02 x .04 styrene strip, cut to fit just a tad oversize did the trick. As time went on I continued the build with the turnouts as they are. And all seemed to go well until I began running a Kato NW2 switcher in the yard. Ouch. The little guy could barely make it through a turnout at low speed, falling into every flangeway, sometimes not being able to get out. So the reckoning had arrived. I remembered this thread from two years ago.
Easy way out is to sell the little switchers and move on. Or I could relegate them to industry switching, which leaves me with far fewer turnouts to modify. And for now that's what I've decided to do, putting one little switcher at the paper mill and the other at the brewery. The paper mill trackage isn't done, so I can modify the turnouts at the work bench.

Adding the shims means no pizza cutter wheels can be used, as they will ride up. Means nothing to me as those were all replaced immediately. I did have a couple of GP38's with large flanges. I ordered new wheels from Atlas. Easy fix.

I cut two pieces of .02 x .03 styrene strip about 3/8" long. Both ends are cut square on one piece, one end is tapered at the frog angle on the other piece, making a nice neat fit. Place the strips into the flangeway where you want them, and then use Plastruct Bondene cement to hold them in place. Use the Plastruct Bondene brush to apply the cement and you'll get just the right amount. Bondene will work through paint. Then use the back of your hobby knife to adjust and press the shims in place. Use a rail brown paint pen to finish up. If you precut a bunch of shims ahead of time this work goes fairly quickly, and I now regret not doing it at the workbench before installing the turnouts.

After seeing how much more smoothly everything rolls through the modified turnouts I may end up 'fixing' all of them.

 

Choochooguy, I have been running the Peco Code55 LiveFrogs for about 30 years. They have always worked really well for me but I noticed that recently when I purchased a Kato FEF 4-8-4, the pilot wheels would drop into the frog and bounce but they still stayed on the track. The Kato FEF still works just fine because of the spring on the pilot wheels and is a wonderful operating model steam locomotive. But, it does mean that you need to be careful using "scale width wheels" with the Peco Code55 turnouts, I think these would probably be particular BLMA and Fox Valley narrow tread metal wheels though Fox also has regular standard width wheels. I really like the Peco Code55 because they give me so few problems even with locomotives that have badly adjusted wheels, usually too narrow. on their axles As mentioned earlier in this thread, FastTracks has a really nice video on how the frog wing rails work to support the wheel tread without dipping through the frog. But, everything is a compromise in our small scale! I have ME Code55 switches which have finer frogs and are prettier but they are much more sensitive to locomotives with wheels that are too close on the axles, quite common. My layout is 50%/50% PecoC55 and MEC55, so I like them both. Interestingly, both can take the older deep Pizza-Cutter wheels. So, you make your own choices! - Tonkphilip