No, actually you won't. That's taken care of when wiring the turnout. It requires a switch to power the frog like the Atlas c55 turnouts. The problem of derailing and shoting is true, as it would be for any area of the layout. Jason
our Ntrak club is starting to use DCC more and more all the time. We have not modified any of our turnouts and in several years of operation i know of no issues. I showed that site to our track wiring guru and his "take" on it was basically, if you're doing all that to prevent something that shouldn't really happen if your equipment is guaged right, why are you using electrofrogs? this is in a way turning them into insulfrogs, which from my limited experience cause more stalling issues than anything else. again, my 2 cents.
That statement is not correct. But to the original question, you DO NOT need to modify Peco electrofrog turnout operate with DCC. However, there will always be a possibilily in time, no matter how slight (or in guage your equipment is), of the the point rails causing a short to the back side of a metal wheel on locomotive or other rolling stock. At a minimum, this will cause the DCC booster to shut down, which should be harmless, but could be annoying if it persists. Worst case, you could cause damage to your equipment if the boosters fails to trip. Another arguement for modifying the turnout is that you no longer need to rely on the point rails to supply power to the frog, which everyone knows can fail. You will, however, need to provide a means to change the frogs polarity i.e. Tortoise, SPDT. Again, just like the Atlas c55 turnouts. Good luck all. Jason
I've run Peco electrofrogs on my layout for a number of years. I only insulate the frogs with insulated joiners. Yes, I've run dozens (probably hundreds) of locomotives through the turnout without the darnd things in the incorrect position (@&#$%$#!!!). My Lenz booster ALWAYS shuts down. If ever it dosen't, or if ever I melt a wheel set then I figure it's time to either get a new DCC system or the wheel set was worn to the point it wasn't any good anyway. I've never fried a decoder with this type of flub up. My opinion, (get out you 2 pennies) skip the dremel,solder,styrene,paint it to hide it, and just use the turnouts as they were designed to work. One caviat, Since the turnout gets its power from the points you WILL (absolutly ain't no doubt about it) have to clean the points from time to time in order to get a consistant power transfer. Other than that I love em' just as they were built. Brian
Where is the switch? Look at the diagram that I was referring to. It has insulated joiners behind the frog and gaps cut before the frog. That effectively isolates the frog and it is dead because there are no feeders to it. Now if you put feeders in to power the frog where are you going to get power from? From the point rails in front of the frog? That is a good choice since that way the frog would have the correct polarity as the point rails. Heaven forbid if it didn't. So what then is the advantage of gaping the point rails if the point rails and the frog will be the same polarity? NONE!!! This whole idea of altering turnouts because wheels may be out of gauge is akin to taking Preperation H because you have a headache. Why not get your heads out of your butts and get your wheels properly gauged and leave the turnout alone because it ain't the problem.
No need to get belligerent. If you'd like to see how the frog would get wired I can update my original drawing. I never intended to show the wiring, only the gaps since the rewiring process is well documented elsewhere. I can't comment on anyone else's intentions. I have no problem with anyone that doesn't think it's necessary to alter Peco electrofrog turnouts for DCC. I know there are many cases where people say they've never had a problem and know only the one instance I witnessed where a piece of equipment was damaged (melted). What I saw had nothing to do with wheel gauge*. If you're going to make that the issue, please don't quote me in the same posting because I don't think I ever said anything about gauging in any of my posts. Live long and prosper with your Peco turnouts, and I sincerely hope you never have any of the problems described. Check your booster's short protection, and never throw your Peco turnouts by using your finger between the point rails. Jason *Gauge is the wrong term anyway. It's the back-to-back dimension that would be the problem. You could have a wheel set in proper guage but short the turnout with thick enough flanges. I only hope no one makes anything that crude.
Ok, lets please keep this civilized. There is no need for telling others to get their heads out of their butts. I welcome all opinions and theories, as it helps with understanding the different results with the various ways of doing things. I have been able to get a lot of valuable things from this thread. Thank you all for your help. I do have to say though that I am still torn about cutting and rewiring the turnouts. Is there the potential for problems? Yes. So do I gap them and rewire? Dunno yet. I am getting my buddy who will be helping me build this layout (electrical genius) to look things over and give his thoughts. I will probably end up doing it, but being as I am not good with electrical things (good at it but not an expert) I am going to defer to your and his opinion. Thanks again everyone.
Sheesh, let's try to start over here...back to basics... The Peco electrofrogs are power-routing turnouts. This means that only the route the turnout is lined for has the rails at opposite polarity, as required to run a train. If either route connects somewhere to another turnout, then you HAVE to insulate the rail somewhere along the route. (If both routes are dead ends, e.g. two short industrial spurs, then you don't even HAVE to do that, although there are often reasons you want to.) This is the ONLY thing you HAVE to do just to operate properly, in DCC or DC. Everything else being discussed in this thread is about providing yourself insurance against SHORTS, and the damage they may cause to your locos. In this regard, there is NO difference between DC and DCC; polarity is polarity and a short is a short. I thus personally don't agree with the term "DCC friendly turnout". The reason this term is used is because shorts with DCC are more likely to cause damage to your locos than with DC. But all wiring diagrams would look exactly the same, and the "fixes" also protect against shorts in DC. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the "DCC friendly" fixes.
Not true. Also discussed was the advantage of a properly cut and wired turnout that routes power as long as the switch beneath is thrown, as opposed to having to constantly clean points--a chore I always hated.
You're half correct, at most. You do not have to cut the turnout to power the frog and avoid the dirty point problem. And this thread hasn't really talkd about how to feed power to the frogs, it's talked about whether to cut the turnouts.
In a Peco electro frog turnout the frog is powered by which ever stock rail the point rails are touching. If the points are touching the rail on the right and that rail is + then the frog and both closure rails are +. Throw the points over to the left rail which is - and the frog and both closure rails then become -. There is absolutely no need to cut the closure rails between the frog and the points. However, after the frog both rails are also the same polarity as the frog. That is okay if the siding does not rejoin the main line via another turnout such as in a passing siding. If it does you need to gap both rails after the frog to prevent a short. That is for both DCC as well as analog DC. So after the frog you would have two tracks with four rails. The rails would have either of the following polarity. either (++, +-) or (+-,--). Notice one track has both rails that have the same polarity. The advantage of the elctrofrog is that the frog is powered whereas in an insulfrog turnout the frog is insulated [DUH!] and dead. In the elctrofrog the closure rails are of the same polarity [(++) or (--)] and change polarity whenever the point are thrown one way or the other. In an insulfrog the closure rails are of different polarity [(+-) or (-+)]. They do not change polarity when the points are thrown so after the frog the four rails of the two tracks are either (-+, -+) or (+-,+-) If the point rails are positioned so that they do not touch either stock rails in an insulfrog turnout the closure rails will still be powered and have opposite polarity. The frog is of course insulated and dead all the time. In the electrofrog turnout both the closure rails and the frog would be unpowered because the point rails are not touching either stock rail. Thus some people drop feeder wires from the closure rails to secondary contacts [not a switch] operated by the throw bar to ensure that the closure rails and frog are powered. However, the Peco turnouts on our Ntrak modules have no secondary contacts and have have operated flawlessly for 20 years.
This is in response to my sharing that earlier in the thread I had talked about getting around points making contact? That doesn't make any sense. And you're right that you don't have to cut the turnout to avoid the dirty point problem. My reasons were more complicated, and I failed to explain myself fully. For some reason, I thought I had done that earlier. I'm having trouble communicating these days, apparently, from the illness, and there seem to be a lot of angry people here suddenly. I guess I'll just confine myself to playing with my paint schemes and butt out.
