On30 Track Questions

Hi all,

I decided after visiting my parents' house this Christmas and watching their new On30 Mogul and a couple of cars parade endlessly around the tree that perhaps my years of armchair modeling in HO might be at an end. I became enamored with the - for lack of a better word - 'chunky' size of this scale (and the accompanying 2-rail O), and was hooked. I soon ordered a new Bachmann 2-8-0 (I love the counterweights on the outside frame), and have begun planning beyond this single locomotive.

I'm getting ready to move to a new apartment in a few months that will allow me to construct a small shelf layout (I'm thinking of doing something along the lines of 14' x 2' with an additional 3' x 4' area at one end [it's a strangely-shaped room]), and I am toying with starting construction on a 2' x 7' module in the interim.

I'm ready to begin purchasing some track (I'm a bit squeamish about hand-laying, given that I have absolutely no skills in this department), but I have a few questions to more experienced modelers in the scale before starting out.

I've already decided to go with ME track (I hear that it's somewhat prone to breakage, but far more prototypical for American and Canadian tracks than Peco's product), but this raises a couple of questions:

1) Should I go with Code 83 or Code 70? I am accustomed to modeling in Code 83 in HO, but this is a brave new world, and I'm uncertain as to size rail to select in this new venture. Which, would you say, is more widely available? Or should I bow to popular consensus, which I am sure will be loudly in favor of hand-laying, difficulties-be-damned?

2) Are ME turnouts DCC-ready, or do alterations need to be made? I've been spoiled by dealing with Atlas Code 83 for a long time, and have no familiarity with other products.

Thanks for any and all help.

 

...

Here's what I'm planning:



What we have here is a three-module (two 5 1/2' x 2', plus one 3' x 4') point-to-point shelf layout. The first section (far right) is an island port-city with street running, similar in many ways to Portland, Maine during its railroading heyday, circa 1960 or so (but, of course, not on the mainland, and not standard gauge).

In the first section, trains (likely led by my 2-8-0)* enter the layout via the detachable, angular, 2-track staging area, onto the bow (only about 1/5th or so of the actual ship) of a ferry. The main line is the southerly of the two street tracks, while the northerly one is utilized by the daily switcher to shuffle cars to and from the dockside tracks. The island's single thrice-weekly passenger train also calls here.

The second module is some distance further along the coast. I cheated somewhat on this section, in having the switches for both other modules' run-around tracks located here. The daily peddler freight here only spends a few minutes picking up full cars from the quarry and dropping off a fresh set of empties before continuing on its way.

The third (left) module will represent a small inland town (represented by only a dirt road, a handful of buildings and a station located in the lower left hand corner), a logging camp (bottom right), plus a small engine servicing barn and gallows-style turn table. This small burg is also where a branch line splits off from the main and heads off into the northern mountains. This line only sees one train ferrying a few cars a week, and these are left on the lower left most of all the tracks shown. The 0-4-0 porter locomotive based in the town utilizes a switchback to gather log cars and deposit them on the siding leading to the camp before heading a few miles east to quickly shuffle cars at the quarry. It then makes its return to the barn.

I think operating sessions could be completed by me in well under two hours (given the rather paltry length of the mainline at barely 15 or so feet), while a second engineer might assist by utilizing the porter to take care of switching in the left-most module. Still, it's all I have room for, and it needs to remain portable, as my new residence is hardly going to be a permanent abode.

My biggest issue is that ME Code 83 turnouts appear (according to www.walthers.com -- search page ) appear to come in a one-size-fits-all #5 and nothing else. Clearly, several of the switches I have drawn on this plan are not #5 (and some are, unfortunately, curved). If I force #5s on this track plan, it will rob it of much of the graceful flow that gives it its unique look. However, hand-laying switches sounds nightmarishly difficult to me.

*Yes, I know this is late for steam, but a few scattered lines were still running it at this point, and it will allow me (once I expand later on to build a larger 2-rail O layout) to run some early diesels, such as NW2s, GP9s, SD9s, etc.

 

I make switches in On30, just starting a business doing it. You have a couple options besides ME and Atlas and Peco. You also can buy jigs (which is what I use) to build your own turnouts.

The company is called Fast Tracks, in Canada. Each turnout jig comes to right and left, so you get each. Wyes are also available. Curved turnouts can be special ordered or you can use existing HO versions and change the ties later.

There are also several companies out there besides mine doing this. You need to do your own searchs, I am providing info, not helping my competition, and not advertising per se.

I use ME code 83 rail. I also enjoy the heck out of hand laying track. Not at all hard and looks so much better. I find it very calming to spike rails.

Currently I am just starting out and only offer #4 in Wye, Left, and Right. I am anxiously awaiting #6 jigs. Someday I hope to have curved turnouts available. I will order any jig a customer needs, but the order needs to big enough to compensate the expense. (group orders are okay)

I hope this helps you with your decisions, and I hope I have not violated forum rules. If so, please delete and advise me admin.
Thanks

 

Hi Kaiser,

Don't be frightened by handlaying track! Yes there is effort involved but the result is the best looking track. There are many companies that offer preassembled as well as turnout kits.

http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bko.html

This website details the techniques and has a complete offering of On30 switches, spikes, and gauges needed.

Regarding #2 above, most commercial track makers offer DCC ready switches. Evidently, DCC is very prone to issues with momentary shorts caused by wheels making contact with the point rails, so there is extra gapping in the point/frog assembly. This requires extra wiring but the track makers include all of this in their switches. I've been told by other handlaying individuals that you can still wire a switch for DCC using the years old DC wiring techniques, you just need to make sure you leave plenty of space on the point rails to prevent the wheel from contacting the open side switch rail.

If you plan on getting any of the larger D&RGW narrow gauge type K locomotives you might want to use code 100 rail as the D&RGW NG uses rail that scales to code 100.

 

Rail size varied over time. Code 70 is the most accurate choice for any kind of industrial road and accentuates the narrow gauge. It corresponds to approx 35lb rail. In reality, anything larger than your 2-8-0 would do harm to 35lb rail...and so is the case in O scale.

So long as you aren't planning to purchase MMI's D&RGW stuff, Code 70 rail ought to be fine. If you are planning to purchase some, then you ought to go with Code 83 for the added strength.

Since you seem to have a strong Maine 2' taste, here's a bit on the rail size up there:
Maine TwoFooters FAQ R-O-W
In short, the mainlines would be C83, the branchlines would be C70.

Michael

 

You folks are definitely tempting me to try hand-laying. I am daunted by the task, though I agree that it looks much better... I may look into it. I may also alter my track plan slightly. I was doing some research last night and stumbled upon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha%27s_Vineyard_Railroad and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantucket_Railroad . Now, obviously both were defunct by the end of WWI, but I figure I could use some creative liberty to expand the lifespan of one or the other into the 1960s. It's a nice added bonus that they were both actually 3-footers IRL as well.

And Jack - even if your post did violate forum rules (which I doubt), it was still helpful, so thank you.

 

The problem with the Quicktrack system is that the initial outlay is supremely expensive - $250 for a single turnout jig... and I imagine that I would need at least 3 jigs to do various sizes of switches. Add to that the curved jig and the straight track jig... and you're talking about well over a thousand dollars in funds, not counting ties or rail.

Is there a cheaper way to do that, or does all hand laid track require such a massive preliminary expenditure?

 

Wolfgang is the fellow who has the HO street-running videos with the tiny, sound-equipped 4 axle switcher, right? His work is fantastic.

 

Hi Kaiser,

I am not familiar with the jigs Jack28 is talking about. However, not to diminish anything that these jigs may provide, I have never needed a jig to do any turnout handlaying. Many years ago while I was in high school I handlaid HO code 100 turnouts completely by hand. As such I made my own frogs and closure rails individually. In doing so all I had for tools were hand files, a soldering iron and a needle nose pliers to do the spiking. And a now missing sense of many hours available to do so.

So cutting to the chase. If you were to buy turnouts from the link I sent you will need no templates. The switches will be delivered properly sized to the turnout length you desire. For On30 they have them from #4, 5, 6, 7, 8, in code 83. Several more in code 100 and a couple less in code 70. They also have wyes and curved switches of various lengths as well. I lay my track with 3' lengths of rail soldered together. As such I buy my switches in the point and frog configuration only. I use my long lengths of soldered rail as the stock rails so as to provide a smooth transition into the switch with no rail joiners.

Regarding the tools necessary to handlay successfully, all you need are a couple of three point gauges set to your rail code, a NMRA standard for final gauging and a small needle nose pliers to do the spiking. Less than $30 all told. Kadee made a rail spiking staple gun as well. These are no longer made but for large layouts it's worth the expense. I recently bought one on ebay for $280 and spent another $50 getting extra parts from Kadee to make sure I was good to go. In your case you may not want to worry about it for now. I would just recommend that you get yerself a bag of regular and switch ties, some spikes, the gauges and a switch and give it a whirl. A good book on wiring basics will also round out your needs. Again, all of this is available from the link I gave you previously from Trout Creek.

Keep us posted!

 

Booke do you buy your spikes and ties from that website as well- *edit* nevermind, you answered that.

And have you seen their pre-assembled turnouts? Do the 'straps' they describe mar the overall appearance?

 

Hi Kaiser,

I buy my ties from Kappler, but that is just because I have done so for years. You basically want to know what dimensions you want your ties to be and then pick a supplier you like. 5" x 7" x 6' etc. for D&RGW 3" NG. The spikes I use are now from Kadee since I am using their spiker staple gun. However, the spikes Trout Creek sells are no different than those I used years ago. I bought these from Walthers if I remember correctly but they were 1/4" in length regardless. Trout Creek has similar spikes available.

Regarding the preassembled turnouts, Trout Creek's pre-assembled turnouts look no different than any other offered over the years. Once you have them spiked down all you need to do is heat up the straps with your soldering iron and remove them. Once that's done you will probably need to clean up that area with copper solder wick to clean up the any remaining solder residue left from the straps. This solder wick is available at Digi-Key at the below link.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=40-2-5-ND

I'm sure Radio Shack has it as well but their website search function does not call it out. Basically what you do is place the copper braid on top of the solder residue and then place your soldering iron on top of the braid. Once the braid heats up the solder residue on the rails is sucked into the copper braid and the the rails are left clean.

Any other questions feel free to ask.

 

As I recall, Trout Creek offers the old BK Enterprises line. They used to be the primary source of On3 (and maybe Sn3) turnouts. I can't recall for certain, but I believe that I have one of them lurking around in a box somewhere.

My stuff is all hand laid. Most of it is Micro Engineering medium spikes with Kappler's 6'6" ties. (I really prefer the look of 7' ties) My turnouts are built by hand and without templates. Just remember to stain the ties in advance, and practice a little before laying the first rails on your layout (you can recycle the rails and sometimes the spikes...but typically not the ties unless they are PC Board).

I would recommend either Micro Engineering small spikes or micro spikes from the Proto:87 store (unlike ME's micro spikes, they have sharpened tips). Micro spikes look much better than medium.

The Martha's Vinyard locomotive in that picture is a Porter-Bell Type C. They were one of the most common locomotives of the early-mid 1870s. The most famous of these were those used by the Colorado Central...
Here's a saddle tank version in 1873:
http://narrowgauge.org/ngc/graphics/tkierscey/ccrr/ccrr037.jpg
And a tender version:
http://narrowgauge.org/ngc/graphics/tkierscey/ccrr/ccrr038.jpg

There were also a few of them in California. The last survivor is in the Pacific NW.

The above roads were part of the narrow gauge movement (1871-1882~84). It was a narrow gauge building bonanza. It was a wide spread building of narrow gauge roads all across the US (95%+ were 3' gauge). Some were built to be trunk lines (the most significant being the Little Giant) and others were built to serve the role later played by fork lifts and trolleys. Roads such as Martha's Vineyard were effectively rendered obsolete by the electric street car. My city, Cincinnati, had at least five 3' gauge roads, all of which were standard gauge by the mid-1890s...only portions of two of them still exist.

Michael

 

I should have mentioned LiTco in particular because they offer a discount code for Fast Tracks. Forgive my lapse.

For production the only way to go is a jig. Hand lay shouldn't be that bad, tho I have never done so.

But that company also has some other tools that are most useful; like tools to file the stock rails, the points, and simple jigs for frog points. Those items in themselves are close to mastercard moment in the use category.

I like that idea of having the stock rails go well beyond the switch. Never considered it. Can't reasonably ship something like that, but for myself........Can do that with the point rails too.

 

Michael - Yes - Trout Creek has the old BK line. I was also going to mention the micro spikes but forgot. Thanx again for sending me the sample. If you can find your old switch perhaps you can post a picture for KaiserWilhelm? I don't have any at the moment.

Jack - I don't think you can run the frog rails out like the stock rails without causing shorts or same polarity issues in one or the other of the 2 tracks leaving the switch. One has to gap the frog rails at the exit of the switch.

KaiserWilhelm - I forgot to address curves. I have used sectional track to act as a template for curves. However, Crystal River has some interesting templates that layout the curve as well as act as the guage for when you lay the rails. They won't work with my Kadee spiker but I like the idea of using them since I don't have any On3 sectional track. I may get some for my new layout. They are relatively inexpensive.

http://www.crystalriverproducts.com/Products/Accessories/track_templates.htm

 

Agreed, but to lay and then cut the gaps after the fact. Whenever I put gaps in say a mainline, I lay the trackage first and then cut and it seems to make the transition smoother....well to me anyhow.

 

Right - I see what you meant.