Just got my first Atlas GP-38 in CSX today. I frequently poo-poo'ed some of the guys on this and the Atlas forum about the "speed issues" and the ability to MU different locomotives. I have to say, the new motor that Atlas is using is soooooooo smoooooooooth. It's far and away the smoothest non-Kato loco yet. Tried MUing it with 2 Kato SD-40-2's and it works very well. Also works pretty good with the Spectrum dash 8's. There are a lot more combinations left to try. Trouble is it doesn't work very well with any other Atlas locos. Sure hope they make a lot of motors as they are going to be hot sellers.
And they thought LL was regearing their locos when all LL ever did was use a different motor, like I told them on the Atlas forum. Its good to see Atlas do it this way because (as they have said themselves) all you have to do to retro-fit your earlier Atlas splitframe locos is swap-out the motors. WAY-TO-GO!
Hi Alan that topic was kicked around alot right before the Atlas board shut down for two weeks. Paul Graf was very quite about answering when the new engines would be available and for what price. My opinion is that they only bought a few extra engines to cover the GP38 for defects and were taking a wait and see until more feedback comes back about the engines. This being a touchy issue with alot of people i could understand. So far I have not heard anyone not like the engine so maybe after they accumalate so more positive feedback they will see the masses yearning for these and get a container ready from China of nothing but replacement engines for us . All of us who like this new low speed engine should place positive feedback on the Atlas board when its back up and with a little luck Mr.G will come through for us .
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by randy shepler: Hi Alan that topic was kicked around alot right before the Atlas board shut down for two weeks. Paul Graf was very quite about answering when the new engines would be available and for what price. My opinion is that they only bought a few extra engines to cover the GP38 for defects and were taking a wait and see until more feedback comes back about the engines. This being a touchy issue with alot of people i could understand. So far I have not heard anyone not like the engine so maybe after they accumalate so more positive feedback they will see the masses yearning for these and get a container ready from China of nothing but replacement engines for us . All of us who like this new low speed engine should place positive feedback on the Atlas board when its back up and with a little luck Mr.G will come through for us . <hr></blockquote> Paul Graf did state on the Atlas forum that the new motors will be made available for anyone who wished to retrofit one to prior engines. As I understood it the new motor would be a drop fit for the old as it will have the same dimensions. I moissed the last week of June for any other postings on the Atlas forum due to vacation. When I returned Atlas had already closed down the forum for their vacation.
Well, I am a believer and non-believer at the same time... I haven't gotten any of my GP38s yet (Sou high hoods are delayed) but I test ran a CSX version earlier this week at the local hobby shop. I ran it on a small Ntrak display they have that is set up inan oval. First, I played with just the GP38 (using DC cab control which happened to be a MRC Tech 2 pack). It ran very well noticably slower and slightly quieter (subjective) than say the SD60s. Although I perceived better slow speed control, it was marginal and I don't think it will be any better than my other recent Atlas releases using DCC. Any increase in pulling power would be cancelled out by the lack of weight in all but a few N scale engines (LL E units are heavy enough to stall and not slip) most current engines already slip not stall. I then ran it in a circle to time a "lap" at ~12 volts. I did not use a volt meter BUT I turned the throttle to where I know its roughly 12 volts on an MRC, I then just turned the power on and off for the later tests. The GP38 took 42 seconds. Next up was a LL GP20 which took 63 seconds and last a Atlas SD35 which rocketed around in 22 seconds. By this estimate the scale speed has been halved but still 140+ smph range. I then ran a decoder version (the decoder versions are delayed but this one had a standard decoder fitted) which reinforced my belief that there was little or no difference in smoothness compared to a decodered GP40 and an SD60M, only a slightly lower noise facter. General I was happy with what I saw BUT before someone spent the money on changing all their previous run engines to the new motor, it would seem wise to move to DCC instead. I think one gets 95% of the new motors benefit in regards to slow speed and much more to boot. This makes more and more sense the more engines one has. Bottom line they are slower, they are slighty quieter, I did not find them any real dgree smoother, but since they are basically the same price its a win! BUT, in terms of retrofit it doesn't make sense if one uses DCC and if one doesn't YET it makes more sense to spend this money on decoders and get all the speed tailoring one could need. Also, though it is a small step closer they still have not matched the smoothness of a Kato which does it with that dragster motor. Finally, I think the real speed secret is with gearing not the motor. IN this case the motor and as a result the flywheel just run slower, the key to smooth running is getting the FLYWHEEL to spin faster BUT the wheels move slower. Although it is a step forward (mainly for DC cab users) I for one think that they are attacking the problem from the wrong (albeit easier in N scale) direction and DCC users will not see anything but a marginal noise reduction BUT no increased low speed control or smoothness. Vandy (get those flywheels spinning) Huskey
Obviously to make a judgment on whether to refit existing locomotives with the new motor will depend on a variety of factors and modelers must weigh the benefit/expense ratio for themselves. I am sure that additional testing will be done and reported on in this and other forums. But I somehow like the ability to retrofit older locomotives with the new motor. Maybe in the future we will be able to select our own gear ratios too. We could be entering the golden age of N scale.
Vandy, your completly right, its with the gearing. Thats why I was sort of disappointed that Atlas took the easy way out with the scale speed thing. What they did is only limit the top speed, and not by a whole lot, but what most people were really aiming for was better speed control, especially around the 5mph range. What you really want is a high speed motor (15,000 rpm) with (if you want, but not neccesary) large flywheels and then a gearing ratio that will convert the engine to a much more realistic speed range and much better speed control. Maybe its not too late to show Atlas that they are aiming in the right direction, but still need a bigger push. Mike
Why not change to a larger scale where these demands can be "AFFORDABLY" realized and stop demanding 'brass' engines at 'plastic' prices?
Ho engines have the speed issue settled already and they are about the same price as "N" scale or slighty more or less depending on the MFG. Yet we pay the same or more sometimes for far more inferior work compared to HO . Is all HO made from brass I think not .The only way N can catch up to HO is if we stand together to keep pushing the envelope to get to the same quality as HO units(With current technology this is no longer a issue for MFG's). So far the speed issue is being worked,code 55 track is coming , product availablity is being looked at . Instead picking on certain issues you should look at the big picture, do I need all these issues myself no but I support them because they advance my Nscale hobby.We have setteled for the same level of quality for years take trackwork Paul Graf from Atlas stated the molds where over 30 years old . Every thing has to evolve or die that is the way of things and I would much rather see Nscale evolve than pass on into obscurity.
The last thing N scale needs is it coming closer to brass in any relation. I dont even see the comparison as brass engines run worse (but sometimes as well) then the plastic ones but have the same speed issue as well. A sidenote on cost and all that. I dont know how much you think is going to affect price, but it would probably be a dollar. So this "affordability" issue is bogus. Id be more concerned that we are still paying top MSRP (included in the locomotive price) for our gears and motors that have not changed in more then a decade and have had tooling (gears) paid off a a long time ago. In the runs these are produced (the same stuff everytime) most of these parts are just sitting around for the next loco (did anyone say inventory?). Mike
