Greetings from a nooby here: Well, not really totally new. I had a small N-scale layout in the mid-1980’s, made up of a Bachmann starter set with some Atlas flex-track and a few turnouts added on. I cast it aside in favor of a 27’ x 17’ “G” shaped 3-rail O-gauge layout with 300 feet of track and an ungodly number of switches that still isn’t quite finished, and probably never will be. For now, I’ve decided to try my hand again at N-scale and have decided on another small layout, this time using Kato Unitrack on top of a foam sub-roadbed. The minimum radius curve will be 11.1” and maximum grade will be 2%. I found a New Kato thread from three years ago that answered some of my questions, but I have a myriad of additional ones that I’ve been endeavoring to find answers to by viewing many You-Tube videos from a variety of people (Mike Fifer being the main one) so I’m hoping I can get opinions on a variety of subjects, some general to N-scale and others Unitrack specific, right here in one spot. If these same questions have been answered previously on another thread, just point me to it. My plan, as diagrammed below, has two separate circuits with a crossover between them. The “Blue” line is at 0” elevation and is just a loop. The “Red Line” is also a loop but folds under and over itself into what I plan to be some sort of mountain village with a variety of bridges and tunnels leading to and from it. There is also a passing siding (yellow) for another waiting train and at some point I may or may not add some additional sidings and spurs for some industries to add some operational possibilities. Right now I have questions relating to benchwork, laying the track, electrical and ballast. Benchwork: My track plan calls the layout to be set along a wall of studs adjacent to my O-gauge layout. It will be in the form of two frames of 1x3’s, roughly equal in size, bolted together, the idea being if it becomes necessary the frames can be separated and the layout can be easily transported, if and when we ever decide to move. (If that happens the O-gauge layout will unfortunately have to be demolished since its all open grid with risers, plywood and Homasote.) So the key question on this subject: Do I need to lay down thin plywood over the frame (I’m thinking ¼” underlayment or luan) and then glue the foam (the pink stuff) on top or can the foam sit right on top of the framework without sagging? The 1x2 cross-members are on 24” centers. I’m thinking about the 2” foam with more foam stacked on top so I can carve gorges and various other interesting landforms. Track Laying: Will latex caulk work to adhere the track to the foam and still allow it to be taken up without damage to the track in case things need to be moved around? Or what about Elmer’s white glue or school glue? Which is the preferred method specifically for Unitrack on foam? Electrical: I plan for now on conventional DC control. I don’t see any real cost effective benefit right now to DCC unless I’m missing something. I have a MRC Tech II power pack left over from my first layout that still works so I just figured to use it. So the key questions have to do with feeding power. The yellow passing siding will obviously need its own feeder with a switch that can be turned on and off. For the other two lines, if I isolate them with insulated track connectors as diagrammed will that work without any short circuit possibilities? Also, I understand the Kato double crossover is electrically insulated at the frog so power would need to be connected beyond all four points. My thinking is if I only have one train running there are no issues with the polarity but if I have two running (with two power packs) can I have the trains running in opposite directions, the same direction, or does it not make a difference which direction they’re running? (Coming from the 3-rail AC world, none of this matters.) I read something on the Kato instructions that if trains are running in the same direction it’s less complicated than if one is going clockwise and the other running counter-clockwise. I’m not sure why that is, but that’s why I’m asking. Finally, even though all the turnouts/crossovers are easily accessible and can be thrown by hand, if I want to connect them to toggles, is Fifer’s method they way to go since I won’t be using the Kato controllers or power pack. Ballast: To be or not to be? As I recall, the main cause of the dissatisfaction with my original N-gauge layout was I ballasted using the traditional white glue, wet-water combination and the results were a disaster. Despite not ballasting anywhere near the turnouts granules managed to work their way into them anyway causing all sorts of problems. It’s the reason I never ballasted my O-gauge layout (Gargraves track & Ross switches) and I was perfectly happy with the way it looked and functioned and most people who visited (when that was actually a thing) never seemed to notice. Please excuse this long post. That’s all the questions I have for now but I’ll probably have many, many more as I progress.
I recommend Aileen's tacky glue. It is water soluable, so like Elmer's can just be moistened for removal. Unlike Elmer's, it remains flexible and likely provides marginally better sound insulation. You may wish to consider a Kato power supply with the Kato soundbox. I have two sets of those, and they work great for a non-DCC layout. The sounds are really nice and they can be hooked up to external speakers or headphones if desired. I had four sets on my last permanent layout, and used a cheap sound mixer and two sets of computer speakers to provide an inexpensive "surround sound" effect. If you go that direction, using the Kato turnout controllers would also be an obvious choice. You also might want to consider their new smart device controller: N-Gauge UNITRACK - KATO USA : Precision Railroad Models These work great in conjunction with their soundbox. I've never been a fan of adding additional ballast to UniTrack. Have fun!
OK so lemme see what I can do for help. 2" foam board will be ok with 24" spacing on the frames but it will be much more rigid and stable with a sheet of ply under. Your layout is approximatly the same size as a hollow core door, those are very rigid and would suit your needs without much for framework. DC/DCC here we go. Yes this could be a simple DC layout but your wiring suddenly becomes more complex. The crossover would cause a short if you tried to cross onto the other track if another train is going the opposite direction. You would have to make sure the polarity is good every time you cross through it. This is where DCC is key, and much simpler. With DCC so long as you keep your feeders on the correct rails when you wire it up you will be able to have trains cross into the other loop without a studder. You will be able to stop trains anywhere on the rails without effecting anyone else, this includes your passing siding. All and all I personally prefer to control my trains, not my track. You could also wire it up for dual operation with just a few modifications to the DCC configuration but you will be once again limited to the same direction of travel when using the crossover. Gluing the track can be done with white glue (I use Mod Podge), caulk or hot glue. On the foam I would use a foam safe caulk or white glue, hot glue seems to want to melt the foam. Hot glue works just fine on wood. If you decide to ballast the track that will just add a bit more adhesion to the sub surface. Hope this helps
If you plan on digging down into your base 2" foam layer for below-grade terrain, you will need the 1/4" plywood underneath. Or you could just use an extra layer of 2" foam underneath. Ballasting is up to you. I don't ballast Unitrack. The track plan is easily amenable to either DC or DCC, since it is not too large, and has only two logical power zones for DC (you mentioned wanting to operate blue and red in same or opposite directions, independently). I would do DCC, but if that's more than you want to bite off now, DC can work fine. When you want to run different trains in different directions using DC, you use separate power districts, with separate power packs. Everything in the same power district will run at the same speed, in the same direction (relative to the track!). With DCC, you can independently control locomotives to travel in either direction. The only reason for separate power districts with DCC is for a reversing loop (track that loops around and comes back into itself in the opposite direction, of which you have none). For really large layouts, where a single booster cannot power the whole layout, you would need multiple power districts, with a booster feeding each one. That does not apply here. The Kato double crossover is not fully isolated. The two tracks are isolated if all 4 switches are set to the through route. But if they are set to cross, then all four corners are connected with same polarity. I don't normally like having switches (rather than trains) be able to cause a short by just being thrown. Not sure how I'd handle that (well, I do, but that's with DCC).
I'll answer this one right off. The Unitrack switches are 'power routing'. If you throw the switches to go into the siding....the 'yellow' track will have power. As soon as you flip the switches back to the thru track...the 'yellow' track becomes 'dead'. No need for the 'yellow' line to have its own 'feeder' or a 'switch' to turn it off. JMO
This is where DCC makes things so simple...somewhat...lol. Trains going in opposite directions CAN crossover into the other track without shorting our switching power supply direction. The only problem I have had is...IF you crossover...make sure there ISNT a train coming the other direction on that track...'cornfield meets' aint pretty ! I have 30+ Unitrack turnouts on my layout. I prefer to flip the switches manually. The biggest reason...a lot less wiring involved ! That plus if I throw them manualy...I can clearly see if they are in fact 'thrown' in the right direction. Once again....just my personal preference. .
I'm nursing a sprained back so I can't go down to the basement and check with my arms. . You said one side is against a wall. Make sure 33" is not too deep and you can reach the other side from one side, especially if you planning to have mountains. Others have answered most of your other questions. Unitrack is a good track system. The tracks stay the cleanest of all tracks out there. Our club thinks it's the metallurgy that Kato uses.
Thanks to all those those who responded. I've never heard of the stuff but I'll try to find it at our local Michael's. Is this the kind of stuff where you can put a blob of it in a couple of places underneath the track section, like a screw hole? This seems really interesting (the sound box). I'll have to find a local hobby shop that sells it and maybe they have it set up in a live demo. I'm used to sounds coming right from the engines/locomotives. I'm not sure what the effect would be coming a fixed position speaker. Here in northern NJ I think there are a couple of shops that I know of that carry Kato, one fairly close by. I'm trying to avoid actually going into small stores these days, for obvious reasons, but in any case this could all wait until I'm more into the wiring. I think I'll wait until the very end to see what things like like without the ballast then try it in a small section. If it doesn't gunk up the operation of any engines or switches, maybe I'll continue on. I see some internet folks troweling latex caulk on with a putty knife under cork roadbed. I've seen another guy running a bead of hot glue the entire length of the Unitrack roadbed. I'm really unclear about what to do with Unitrack. Regardless if it's caulk or glue do you run it under the entire length or just at a few points? THAT's interesting! I'll take that into account. Again, thanks to all. If I can get a clarification on how much adhesive to use, whichever one I end up using, and where it goes, I would be most appreciative. I've updated my layout diagram (deleting the feeder for the passing siding) and added my general idea for the topography. Maybe what I'll do is update this thread with some pictures every now and then as I make progress. Right at this point I'm still building the benchwork and adding electrical outlets and lighting for the area in my basement where the layout will be located.
Aileen's Tacky glue is like industrial strength Elmer's glue. And it's tacky (duh! ) so you don't have to hold it as much as Elmer's. Very versatile around the house. When it dries, it's semi-flexible. https://www.michaels.com/aleenes-original-tacky-glue/M10614859.html?dwvar_M10614859_size=5 fl oz I use water based latex caulk to secure road bed and tracks (I don't use Unitrack). I use the tube packaging from Home Depot so it can be easily sealed after each use and you don't need a caulking gun. Get the clear version. Goes on white, dries clear. Good indicator to know when you can handle the pieces. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Kwi...tchen-and-Bath-Adhesive-Caulk-18873/100040837 Be aware that Unitrack does not have a flat solid bottom, for example like a piece of cork. Only the edges of the "road bed" touches your layout so if you are going to glue it you need to run a bead along the edges. You probably don't have to do the whole edge but I defer that question to others who have actually glued down Unitrack.
I use the caulk or hot glue only where the track joins another track. That part of unitrak is lower and will not require a mountain of glue or caulk to achieve needed results. The rest of my track gets "glued" down when I balast it.
When using DC, the loco speed is a little sensitive to how far away the train is from the nearest feeder, especially at low speeds. Unitrack and its rail joiners make much better electrical connections than conventional sectional track/joiners, but they are not perfect. Also, when the switches are thrown to connect both ends of the yellow siding, the red line feeder there is only powering the red track between those two switches, leaving the one feeder in the middle of the layout to handle everything else on the entire red line. I would put feeders on both red loops at both ends of the layout (4 feeders), and dispense with the feeder in the middle, elevated section. If that track is bridges or viaduct, it would be more of a pain to hide the feeder wire there. This way, no track is more than a single layout length from the nearest feeder. The blue line feeders already meet this one-layout-length criteria. I would go ahead and put a feeder on the yellow line and down through the foam, just not connect it up to the red line power yet. That way, when(!) you convert to DCC, you won't have to throw switches to get trains to move on the yellow line. Note: When you look closely at the insides of a Unitrack switch, it is only the two inner, frog rails at the Y end of the switch that are ever electrically disconnected. The outer rails are continuous from end to end, no matter how the switch is thrown. If you wanted to save money/effort for the red/yellow siding feeders (or terminal unijoiners), you can use a single feeder on those two inner rails (pay attention to the electrical polarity here, you need to supply each inner rail with opposite polarity relative to the adjacent outer rail) to feed both sidings continuously.
Michaels will have it. As others may have mentioned, it is probably best just to position the track and run a small bead/fillet along the edge. You really shouldn't need to make it continuous, just enough to hold the track in place. It dries clear. I've also used Aileens to glue down turf, ground foam, etc. It is very similar to Elmer's white glue, but it's not hard as a rock when dry. Two points. 1) Bass sound is non-directional (you can't tell what direction it's coming from), so that part of the sound spectrum won't matter. I am of the opinion that "proper" train sounds should be mostly bass, which you can get by connecting external speakers to a Kato Sound Box. Not so much from some tiny onboard speaker in a DCC sound equipped loco. 2) You're not limited to a single fixed position speaker. For a layout such as you are showing you could mount a pair of speakers at the back corners (or perhaps on each end of the layout or even one speaker at each of the four corners. I used one of these to connect four Kato Sound Boxes to two sets of computer speakers on my last real layout. Amazon.com: Maker Hart LOOP MIXER - Portable Audio Mixer with 5 Channels, 5 x 1/8" Stereo and 1/4" Mono to Stereo DM2S Adapter: Musical Instruments I only have temporary dual loop layouts now, so am planning to hook two sound boxes to that mixer and output it to a bluetooth transmitter. Some can simultaneously link to two bluetooth speakers, so that's the direction I'll likely go. Wireless bluetooth speakers are really impressive! They even make very small bluetooth speakers now that could "almost" fit on a flat car behind your locos, thus giving the rough equivalent of DCC sound equipped locos. Give it another year or two and we'll be there. This is what I'm considering: Amazon.com: TROND TV Bluetooth V5.0 Transmitter and Receiver, Digital Optical TOSLINK and 3.5mm Wireless Audio Adapter (AptX Low Latency for Both TX and RX, Pair with 2 Devices Simultaneously): Electronics I will add that wireless bluetooth headphones will likely work great for this as well.
I'm a little late here on the ballasting and gluing down the Unitrack but here ya go. Take a few minutes and browse through the JPT Sub N scale thread. I have used Kato ballast that matches Unitrack to fill in between the double track and to extend the ballast out from the sides of the track. I did not add ballast between the rails at all. You can see for yourself how it looks. As for gluing down the track, I didn't. I used good ole Elmar's white glue to put down scenery and the extra ballast and that material plus and excess white glue that may have seeped under the track is all that is holding it and it seems solid and stays in place.
I once had a similar dual loop UniTrack layout with the Kato double crossover. I didn't have a passing siding. IIRC, I split both inner and outer loops into left and right insulated blocks. I then built an ultra-simple control panel that was four DPDT switches to connect the four blocks to the two DC transformers. This allowed running a train through the crossover, from inner to outer loop (or visa versa), with a single power pack. I realize that block wiring can get very complicated, but for this simple of a layout it's nothing. I wouldn't invest the time and expense for DCC here just to avoid block wiring. Other reasons, perhaps yes. Oldb by NorsemanJack posted Feb 9, 2020 at 3:41 PM You can barely see the two packs and the control panel in this old photo.
I'm going to think hard on the wiring question because right now I want to keep things as simple and inexpensive as possible. I anticipate that sooner or later the manufacturers will be coming out with radio control for N scale, like for O and HO (ie: Lionel Lionchief Plus) where instead of the commands to the trains traveling through the rails, it's via R/C. Or maybe this has already happened? I wouldn't want to make an investment in one technology only to see it supplanted by something that might be a lot less complex. I'm very familiar with block wiring and old fashioned cab control, that's the way my O-gauge layout is wired, but I really like the way my two R/C engines work. (I do both, depending on whether the trains that are running are new, or from my collection from the late 1950's. I'm going to have to investigate this more thoroughly, but for now my shipment of Unitrack just arrived, I'm finishing up the electrical connections for the new outlets today and assuming there are no sparks when I turn the circuit breaker back on, the benchwork will be completed and then the track laying can commence.
I don't know how long it will take for wireless N scale to come along, but if you are comfortable with blocked DC, it is certainly workable, and less expensive than going DCC and then wireless at some point.
I would go with DCC. For $50 in arduino and motor shield hardware, a old computer for JMRI and DCC ++ EX, DCC is easy to get into and with this nice layout controlling multiple trains differently would be fun. With JMRI you'll get wireless control through your phone.
Assuming the technical aptitude required, that would be a lower cost avenue for DCC than other systems I can think of, but don't forget the cost of the decoders... I like DCC as much as the next guy (I went with a Pi SPROG 3 DCC system), but I also respect Xray's need to minimize cost, and his experience and comfort level with DC and block control. We all have to work within our own budgets, or our hobbies won't last long.
I dabbled in DCC and then reverted to pure DC. In my case, cost had nothing to do with it. If I ran my trains on a large collective layout, I would embrace DCC. I don't. I like the simplicity of DC for just running trains on dedicated tracks. That said, I can certainly appreciate the other approaches that folks adopt.
