I'm getting ready to make a new free standing layout but I'd like to add DCC to it. I need it to run my Walther's turntable and locomotives, but for now I'll be using manual switches. I liked the remotes a group I visited was using and I want to be able to match locomotives of different makes so they can run as sets. I'd also like to be able to shutdown DCC completely so nothing shorts out so I can run some DC stuff that isn't worth converting but is still nice to have on hand. I just need some advice on what DCC and DC equipment would fill my needs and who makes them. At most I'll be running 2, maybe 3, trains at one time so I'm not thinking I'll be needing track sensors or programable routes. Speed matching, a few remotes, sound coding, turntable operation and from time to time DC mode is all I want out of it and I'll be happy.
A simple connection to a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) Toggle switch will enable you to select DCC or DC depending on the switches position. DCC in one end, DC in the other end and the center terminals go to the track. You have to be careful and remove all the DCC equipped locos from the track before switching the toggle to the DC position and do not leave DC only locos sitting on track powered by DCC. Digitrax and NCE systems are the top of the shelf. The Digitrax Zephyr is a good beginners system and is expandable to include hand held controllers and wireless operation. The Digitrax DT400r or 402r can control 2 trains with each throttle. I don't know if the Walthers turntable you have is DCC ready. Speed matching locos is easy and will let them run together.
It would help to know your approximate layout size and the scale. From my experience I would keep it simple. Consider using separate track loop on the layout for DC. Bob
Cool thanks. The turntable is DCC (surprise power pack sold separately) and the scale is HO. Right now I'm working on what the layout will be but so far it's looking to be 10'-14' by 4'-5' with a small 4' by 4' section making sort of a snubbed upside-down "L." My mainline is for my big mainline locos and cars and maybe a secondary inner line running next to the outer one for smaller equipment. I'm also going for a spur, 4 track yard, and 3 platform station. I've gotten to the point that I really need to make a new layout since I can't run my Challenger or passenger cars. The layout is also going to be modular since we live in an apartment and remodeling isn't exactly an option. I'm going to be using code 100 and 80 (turntable is 80) track with soldered joints because I've never had luck with joiners and steam locos. I've done a few simple loop layouts and 1 or 2 turnouts in the past that have been 3x4 feet at most, but since my roster and rolling stock have grown so much I'd like to run a real train now. I mean, I have a full GN Empire Builder I'd like to run at some point and whenever BLI gets around to making the rest of them, I'll have most of a prewar daylight too. Not to mention that i also have a challenger I can't run right now. So what happens if you run a DCC programed loco in DC? I'm wondering since all my BLI, Athearn, and Bowser locos are factory ready for DCC, but will run in DC just fine, but some have sound and they tend to get annoying after a few minutes since I can't silence them in DC. I know they make DCC sound controllers for DC, but my LHCs have them on backorder.
When you said the locos are factory ready for DCC does not mean they have DCC decoders in them, even if they do have sound. If they are factory equipped with DCC then they should have decoders. If you have all the DCC equipped locos on the layout on powered track, when you switch to DC all of the locos will move at the same time. Most modern decoders are dual mode decoders and will run on DC. There is a CV in the decoders that will turn off DC control (analog) so that won't happen. Yes sound locos can be annoying but you can mute them.
I have a mixed bag for a roster. Most of the BLI locos came with decoders and one is ready for one, but they all have sound and only one has onboard sound control. I know this because I fried forward on one of the decoders. Lights, sound, and reverse still worked however. Most of my Athearn stock is quick plug but I think my new Genesis locos are pre equipped. The Bowsers say they're "DCC ready, 8 pin decoder equipped." I have one Sunset that is equipped (and programed) and one that needs to be converted. I really need the DC since I have 2 very nice and new twin motor Kato P42 Genesis locos that are DC ONLY. I found the "instructions" for converting them but they run so good as a pair (and I need them to) that I'd be SOL if I fried one. Plus I can't find a LHS that is willing convert them, which is weird since they'll convert my brass. The Kato motors are right above the axel sets as opposed to a single motor in the center so I imagine they'd be a lot harder to convert. The Kato P42's are my ends for my Talgo consist which took forever to find and get working correctly. My Athearn P42 just didn't quite cut it, but it is DCC quick plug. Sooo...., can one buy 8 pin decoders in bulk? Otherwise I'm looking at over $400 in decoders. I'll probably farm out 2 or 3 locos that can be converted so it's done right. Last thing I need is the mysterious blue smoke making a very hard to find loco worthless.
Digitrax and Lenz systems will allow you run analog/DC locos on address "0", while running the other DCC equipped engines on their normal addresses. I converted over to DCC 4 years ago, and am happy as a clam with my Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio system. Although the learning curve was steep, both my youngest son and myself are smart guys and it didn't take long to figure things out, especially with online searches and the assistance of friends who also run Digitrax. The only drawback to running on address "0" is that when the engines are stationary, they "sing" as the motor senses the high-frequency AC of the DCC protocol and vibrate accordingly. The motors are also likely to overheat when stationary, so it's a really good idea to provide a siding that can be turned off to park your analog/DC engines on. On my layout, that siding is also the programing track, and works great for us. If you have a lot of DC engines that you're planning on running, I'd consider either Digitrax or Lenz because those systems will save you having to run your layout either full DCC and no DC, or full DC and no DCC. Here's a photo of what's under my portable N-scale layout as far as my Control Station, Power Supply, Power Block Board, and programing booster (for locos with sound): I use high-purity, many-wires, lo-Ox, red & black 12ga. zip speaker wire for my main power buses. I attach 14ga sub-buses to my main buses and attach my feeders to the sub-buses. I use genuine 3M IDC's (suitcase connectors) instead of soldered joints for both convience's sake and reliability. I also attach a 22ga. feeder to each and every piece of rail, and I NEVER trust rail joiners to carry power to any section of rail, using them only for their mechanical properties. Here's a photo of one of my 6' N-scale modules with newly applied DCC wiring under it: I'm very happy with my DCC installation, and I've had no problems whatsoever that I didn't find a solution to in a few minutes online or on the phone. However, I have no provision for switching from DC to DCC as far as the wiring is concerned. I just use Digitrax's capability of running analog/DC engines on address "0", which greatly simplifies things. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
3m IDC Connectors Bob - can you expand on your 3M IDC connector - I find a number of them on the 3M site and wondered which you used. Thanks, Chris
I run 12 ga. main power buses, and then attach 14 ga sub-buses which are a maximum of 3' long, to which I connect all the 22 ga. solid core feeders from my rails. The 3M IDC for connecting the 14 ga sub-buses to the 12 ga. main power buses is this: 3M™ Scotchlok™ Electrical IDC 567, Run and Tap, Flame Retardant, Brown, 18-14 AWG (Tap), 12-10 AWG (Run) This is commonly called the "Brown #567 IDC" The (Tap) and (Run) terminology refers to where the IDC is connected in relation to whether the wire "runs" completely through it, and/or the pigtail that terminates "tap" at the IDC. My instance is that the 12 ga. power bus runs through the IDC and the 14 ga. sub-feeder terminates at the IDC. I run 14 ga. subfeeders (less than 3' long) roughly along the underside of my subroadbed. To this 14 ga. sub-feeder I attach the 6" long 22 ga. track feeders using this 3M IDC: 3M™ Scotchlok™ Electrical IDC 905, Run and Tap, Low Voltage (Automotive) Applications, Red, 22-18 AWG (Tap), 18-14 AWG (Run) This is commonly called the "Red #905 IDC" and it comes (I believe) in two versions, the "double run" and the "tap" version (otherwise called the "Run and Tap" version). You do NOT want the "double run" version, but the "tap" or "Run and Tap" version. I got mine in bulk on eBay for a disgustingly ( ) LOW LOW price in quantities of 100 since my layout at the moment consists of ten 6' modules/sections and I was wiring all of them to Ntrak DCC standards, and I also had three other fellows who were building LDE's to the same standard to buckle up with mine at 3 local shows per year. I did a quick eBay check and came up with this link for the red 905's: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181285553176&fromMakeTrack=true Here's the link for the brown 567's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200579819716?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 You may not need 100 of either of them, but the price per piece is hard to beat. Also, there are "deals" on similar connectors made in Hong Kong. I would stay away from them as it's almost 100% they're counterfeit and don't have the technology behind them that the genuine 3M Scotchlok IDC's have, which includes a non-oxidizing alloy for the metal part that won't rust. I've tried some off-brands in the past, and the real 3M IDC's work much much better. Hope that answers your questions! Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
I've placed a order for my roundhouse portion of the eventual layout and I'm thinking I'll have 2 or 3 of the rails coming off the turntable connected to a toggle switch so they can be turned off along with a small section of my switching yard. Since I'm going for remote throttles, is there a way to tell a decoder to power up and keep running so I can use that remote on another loco or 2? I have a rotary snowplow and it would seem like a waste of resources to dedicate a remote to a car that is powered but isn't propelled. The last time I did a full layout I was in 2nd or 3rd grade (DC powered N scale, around '92) and I didn't do a lot with the wiring, but I recall that power feeds had to be sent to the switches and 2 feeds powered the mainline. Do you still need multiple power feeds in DCC?
Yes, most DCC systems let you start up an engine(or snowplow in this case) with the throttle and then switch to another engine to control it why the first one continues on following it's last command. You can then later switch back to the first one to shut it down.
I have a ton of photos. You wanting something that relates to this thread?...or general photos? Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
So I got a great deal on a Digitrax "Radio Equipped" Super Empire Builder Xtra set. I get the feeling its overkill for what I want, or is it?
No you will find that Digitrax Super Empire builder Xtra, will be everything you will want for right now and for the future. Its an excellent setup for beginners and for larger layouts. And if you decide to use the add on accereries that are availible you have that ability. Dont be over whelmed by all there is to learn...get the basics and then go from there, one thing at a time. Jim
Thanks Jim, I feel better about the $$ I paid. I can admit I have NO idea what I'm doing. With that admission, I have ordered 4 dcc converter flex lights (So cool) that are going into 2 powered LRVs. My 2 LRVs will be powered with 2 Endo units on one and 2 Tenshondo units on the other. I have also ordered Digitrax 4 amp wired decoder (series 3) for each of the LRVs. My question is, if the lights have a DCC converter built in, then do they need to be wired directly to the axel pickups, or could I get away with the 6 X .500mA function outputs on the decoder? Thanks, Josh
Hi Josh, Who makes the DCC flex lights? I would assume you could hookup to the lighting connection on the decoder provided it doesn't exceed the output limits. It would seem like you would have more control of lighting funtions (on/off, etc) connected to the decoder. I wonder if they use diodes, and resitors to make the DCC circuit for the LEDs? You will find it easy to speed match using the DCC system when you use different locos or components. There are alot of methods to match locos, I find setting one locos CV 2,3,4,5,6, to where you want it to work. With your set loco on the program track, read the setting in page mode, then place you new loco on the program track and then enter. This will place the same value in the new loco. Then remove new loco and repeat the process. I have found this helpful when I program alot of locomotives, so they can run together, since I had to read the settings to begin with. To fine tune I place them on the main and the MU together and adjust the new loco, taking it to the program track to adjust. Now if you get more confidence you can program on the main with the units NOT MUed, it uses the locos address as the means to access the CVs. JMRI has Decoder Pro for programming and I find it the best way to keep track and to make adjustments to my locomotive roster (50 locos), and its a free download. It will require a computer and a PR3 to interface with you Digitrax command. Sorry for thr long reply. Jim
ANE makes the flex lights. The converter board with resistors and what I think is a diode has 1 light and you can daisy chain more LED units as you see fit. I've got 20 of the daisy chain units coming and 4 of the converter boards, 2 boards per LRV due to the articulated center. It looks to be a much better setup then the Rapido or Walthers setups. No worries about the length and thanks again, Josh
