What I really like about DCC is that I don't need to have a block system to run more that one train on my layout. I run helpers and several trains with DCC, something I could not do with DC. IMO DCC helps to make model railroading more realistic isn't that what it's all about.
A really though question to answer. I use this decision tree: Do I want sound or not? If sound, is there a non-MRC sound decoder available and at what price? How much milling is required to install it and will that be doable for me and my limited possibilities (tools)? <Sound is really a challenge - I still do not know if I really want it or not. When I have run a train with sound and then one without sound I miss it.> If not sound, is there a drop-in decoder which has a user-programmable speed table and supports Rule 17 lighting (dimming) for that type of loco? Does it support BEMF? (is not really a factor for me as I turn it off, but it might be for you) If yes, use it. If not, is there some kind of "secondary" drop-in decoder that supports the features mentioned above? (e.g. TCS CN) This is a personal choice, as I hate grinding and milling, especially in winter because I have to do that in a cold garage. So the fewer to mill&grind the better. The CN requires a bit of it. If not, use a Lenz Silver Mini (or the number one decoder of your choice - my experience with around 100 decoders installed is that Lenz quality is superior, YMMV) Hope this helps you Michael
I find that is easier to speed match engines if I use the same decoder type in all engines. I use NCE in my H0 scale engines because I perceive their slow speed capability to be better than other manufacturers. Relative to N, scale I have read here that TCS is the same in N scale, that is, better slow speed capability. As for converting, DC serves my purposes in my operation and I see no need to convert to DCC.
I use both Digitrax and TCS, I do not see any better slow speed control with TCS. Both work really well. The big difference I see is in acceleration and decelaraton rates, if I set a Digitrax to (3) I have to set a TCS to (8) to achieve the same rate.
I'm sure I'll be in the minority for this opinion, but I prefer hard wired decoders to the drop-ins. I prefer being able to fit one model of decoder to every locomotive then having different model drop-ins for each different type of unit. An additional benefit is I never get a loose connection. As for the particular decoder I use, there's actually two because I have sound in some units. I use a Lenz silver mini for non-sound installations and an ESU Loksound micro for sound installs.
I know of a situation recently where a modeler got rid of the (H0 scale) PC board and hard wired the decoder into the engine. I had never heard of that before but I think he had problem with the board. I always thought the PC board was an advantage and made it easier to go DCC, but maybe that is not always true. All of my H0 scale engines are so old that they are hard-wired.
the club layout is dcc SO i have about 8 locos with decoders in them. john the club pres sets them up for me as i have no clue how to!! its so nice to walk the layout and follow your train pulling into a siding to let a hotshot pass you by and not have to power down is a plus. there will be about six to ten locos just sitting idle on the layout at any time. just punch in the number and off and running i love the dcc and as i learn more about the more i will enjoy it!!!!:thumbs_up::thumbs_up:
The key phrases here are: "I don't see what all the discussion is about" "in the long run". #1 shows a lack of understanding of the issues people have brought up or it disavows everything they have said or I completely misread it. How can you make such a statement without qualifying it by using "For Me"? #2 is a broad sweeping generalization. Generalizations - in general - have broad sweeping exceptions. For myself: I resisted the sirens song for years. The three main issues were: Need - one person running on two ovals and a yard with two power supplies and no visitors Technical capacity - Refitting my existing fleet was / still is too intimidating Cost - I nearly lost my home Complexity - I just did not need it My life has changed: Need - still not truly there and never will be but I can certainly perceive it as a nice-to-have as my layout grows to a fifty foot long 2 track main with an extended "operational" based yard. Still - I can see how it is not "needed" Technical capacity - I still don't have it and still don't need it as I can still run my non DCC locos Cost - still an issue but not a home wrecker Complexity - still an issue but becoming easier Still - it won't be happening any time soon. Folks - this is meant in a nice way. I am not singling out "Train Kid" per-se as much as the statements which echo that of other intelligent well educated people.
GreyOne- constructive argument there! It is true, not everyone needs DCC and those are good reasons why. If everyone needed it, you couldn't buy anything without it! I think bachmann is standardizing it simply because it is getting so cheap for them on the manufacturing side but many makers are still mostly DC for good reason
DCC is like everything else in life. It's good for some but not for others. Is this so hard to understand? However you pursue model railroading is fine if you are having fun. Is your DC layout fun? Then you're doing it right, for you. I use DCC and it's right for me. Heck, we all don't model the same railroad or era. Why should we all use one control system. One size does not fit all.
i'll be going DCC because i'm making a fresh start after not having a layout for years. i'm planning (and i know how that can go :tb-wacky on buying new engines and see advantages to DCC. but i really don't need it for the 15'x8' ish dog bone layout i'm planning. i just like the control over multiple engines on the same track that's possible
I prefer DC but have a lot of DCC equipped locomotives. I have used about all brands of decoders but most of mine are Digitrax or TCS. Most are hard wired and mounted in an older locomotive where I had to mill a pocket in the chassis on diesels or in the cab or tender on a steamer. I have about 8 plug and play decoders in my diesels, most of which I have hard wired motor leads to the PC board because I had problems with contact there. I have a system that I plug into one of the lines on our club NTRAK layout when we set up by ourselves. Since I am the only one in our club running on it, things usually go smoothly and I have a good time. However it seems that any more, if you go to a convention where there is a large community NTRAK layout, the red line is many times all DCC. You can run DC but are usually limited to one loop along the spine of the layout. If you want to run around the entire layout you have to have DCC. In my experience, the operation is anything but smooth. With so many clubs trying to coordinate and join all the track and multiple systems there seems to always be bugs that cause things like the wireless throttles to drop out (then you have to scramble to find a socket to plug into to regain control of you locomotive), system shut down and resets from shorts and other problems, too many folks trying to do too many things at the same time, etc etc. I usually get frustrated and go back to a local loop and run my DC trains. I remember at the National NTRAK convention in Louisville a few years ago, the DCC on the red line was not fully functional until the very end of the first day. The second day was the usual shudder/stop/runaway operation that I usually experience. The only bright spot was on the first day, I was able to run my DCC locomotives on a local loop of a club that was temporarily isolated from the big layout. They had impeccable track work and a fully debugged DCC system. Now that was a joy to behold. DCC can be quite nice on a home layout or a small show layout but in my experience it is a pain on large NTRAK layouts.
We had quite the opposite experience at a recent big T-TRAK meet, we had 61 modules from several clubs and individuals in the layout with two smaller inside loops and one big, all the way around the layout loop on the outside track, so despite the smaller size of the modules the layout was the equivalent in complexity of a large NTRAK setup. Our club's N scalers are mostly DCC, so as soon as the modules were set up and leveled we plugged a Digitrax Zephyr into the inside track on one of the smaller loops and immediately were running three trains and doing some switching in a yard. About an hour and a half later the analog crowd had sorted out problems with their throttle and wiring and were running one train, there were great cheers from our group when a train finally rolled around our side of the layout on the outside track. Towards the end of the day they said we could put DCC on the outside loop, we just plugged a second lead from the Zephyr into the outside track and away we went. We would never go back to running analog on modular show layouts.
Again, another DC vs. DCC shootout! I went to JoeW's original post to see what he asked, and it was not about DC/DCC. In fact, he despaired of such discussion. But, his enquiry was answered early on, so I hope he's fixed. My two cents to JoeW's needs is that most current decoders work pretty much the same and the choice of decoder is driven by fitness to the engine: drop-in or hard-wire. And price, but that isn't apparent until you are looking at 20 or so decoders. I have, now, 12 decoder equipped engines and 6 not so equipped. Since I buy both used & new equipment I have at least three major brands and one I haven't figured out yet. I think there is an advantage in using one brand because you don't have to sort out CV settings. But that's small change compared to forcing one maker's decoders to all engines. I have enough trouble installing decoders and have had to do hard-wires and drop-ins. For me, never easy ... always glitches. I can't imagine running 3 consists w/7 engines and still doing yard switching to assemble the next consist across all trackage w/o DCC. How many electric switches and power paks would that take if I used DC? That's why I'm happy with DCC. But I can't figure out DC wiring for a complex situation anyway. I started the hobby 2 years ago and would never have if DC were the only way to go. I'd agree w/Trainkid that DCC is the only way to go because I like running complex traffic.
Back on track to the decoder discussion I run all Digitrax decoders in my modern DCC ready Kato locos. I enjoy running MU’s of four to eight locos. Using DecoderPro I have had few issues in establishing a baseline for speed matching MU’s. Locos with the same decoders are always easier to set up as an MU. Is this just dumb luck or does it say something about consistency with regard to compatibility and ease of use? I’ll let you be the judge. Jerry
I would still maintain that T-Track, by its inherent design, is simpler than a large NTRAK layout with all the complex junction modules that show up to create the monster layouts with hundreds of modules. All the under the deck wiring, that T-Track lacks, is a big source of problems with the NTRAK layouts. At the Oklahoma City show last December, one entire loop on the DCC line was down for most of the show because one module had some scrambled wiring that took them for ever to ring out. Fortunately we were able to bypass that and keep on running. At the NTRAK convention in Danville, Virginia last September, they had a T-Track layout with over 50 modules that ran flawlessly with all DCC while the DCC NTRAK layout next door was a nightmare. A train would go for a few yards and then stop until everything reset. I pulled my train off half way around and went back to run on the T-Track or the separate DC NTRAK layouts.
While I did my best to stay out of this one, it isn't going to happen. The inner evangelizer in me couldn't resist jumping in. Grin! From the sounds of things here... we are pretty much in a transitional period. Many of you are considering DCC for the first time while others are sold on it. I'm sure Analog DC still has a future for model railroaders...this isn't the end. On my home layout, as most of you already know, I'm set up for Analog DC and AC DCC. I may not live to see the day when all my locomotives have been switched over. I will die trying...grin! The future, you see us evangelical types... like to prophecy. LOL Hurrumph...perhaps taking this a bit to far. Oop's. I do see DCC becoming a priority for many of you. For me it will be a long and drawn out process. While I wait patently for my Analog equipment to be hard wired over to decoders. All having to do with the economy, budget restraints and one never really knows what's in the future. For club layouts the only reason I see for keeping analog is for those die hards that don't want to switch over to DCC. After all who said we/they/us would have to? Good discussion and I'm glad Joe asked.
Well, in the dying months of my UK outline system, I changed over to Unitrack, and the Unitrack controller. I MAY at some point in the future go to DCC on the US outline layout, but I understand I'd need to change controllers, so it isn't a priority. Regards, Pete Davies
Thank You OK well it looks like this post is about to fall of the page. Before it does I want to thank you for the input. I know many of you could have spent time working on your own models rather than advising me about mine. For that I thank you.
