Hi all, I recently re-entered the hobby after 15 years or so away. I basically bought out someone who was leaving the hobby and got the following locomotives: KATO EMD SD40-2 (Union Pacific #3379) KATO EMD SD90/43MAC (UP #8104) KATO GE C44-9W (UP #9702) LL HERITAGE STEAM COLLECTION 7589 USRA 2-8-8-2 (UP #3673) LL 7518 SW9/1200 (UP #1828) BACHMANN EMD DD40AX (UP #6922) All the loco's run and look brand new. I've built a small 36x80 door layout and am currently trying to finish up the landscaping (it's a Christmas present for my two young boys...oh ok, it's for me too!). I'm thinking of getting a DCC system (DCC is completely new to me but I've been reading). Mostly, I just want the lights and sounds which will appeal to the boys so I don't need too much in the way of options. I was considering the Bachmann EZ DCC system due to it's inexpensive price. (One Question on this: is there a concern that low end DCC systems can hurt your loco motors???) So, my main question is which of my locomotives would be good candidates to convert to DCC. I might sell off one or two to pay for the DCC system as well. The big DD40AX is HUGE and it is a bit much for a door layout! I'd love to put a decoder on the 2-8-8-2. I guess I'm just looking for advice in general about DCC and my locomotives. I am pretty mechanically inclined but soldering electrical components was never a strong suit of mine. I don't really know what's involved in converting to DCC so I figure a safer bet is to start with a locomotive that lots of people have converted and use their experience to guide me. Thanks for any help or advice!
The DC component on a DCC system will usually give the engines running on it a loud buzzing noise. That has not been a viable option for me. Bachmann's DCC system is wonderful because 1) it's easy to use 2) uses the same DC plug system. I have both the DC and the DCC system and I EASILY swap out the controllers. The part that plugs into the controller is simply a 1/8" jack. I would recommend using this system.
If you are uneasy with soldering, I wouldnt try and install a decoder on a non-dcc ready locomotive yourself. Find someone local that has done several, and do it together until you feel confident. Practice soldering on your own too. Just take some small gauge stranded wire, maybe decoder scraps, and practice "tinning" the wire. The secret to succesful soldering is flux, flux flux. The biggest mistake is, trying to heat the solder onto a surface. that is a no no. You heat the surface to get the solder and touch the solder to the heated surface, and not the iron itself. Solder will flow in the direction of the heat. Use a good solder paste available at any electronic store, or radio shack. Put small amount of paste on the surface, and on the tip of the iron before soldering. This can get more detailed, if ya want more soldering tips, let me know so I dont write a book here, hahhah.. oh yeah.. Another common soldering mistake, is blowing on the hot soldered joint to cool it. Do not do this. Even your breath will contaminate the solder joint, and cause what is called a "cold solder joint". A cold solder joint does cause higher resistance, and can cause things to heat up resulting in damage. Cold solder joints are also brittle, and crack under vibration, causing premature failure down the road. Always let solder cool naturally. Joint should be silver, and shiny. Cold solder joints are dull and more grey. Good luck..
My 1/50th of a Dollar My advice (which is usually unpopular around here) is this: 1. Do NOT buy the Bachmann system. If you want to do sound, you'll find the Bachmann just won't cut it. (on the other hand, it won't hurt locomotives, FYI) 2. Buy a Lenz Set 90, Digitrax Zephyr, or NCE PowerCab. 3. Keep your Kato's. They are excellent locos and are "board-swap" DCC ready, meaning no soldering required. I think MRC has drop in sound boards for these but I'm not 100% certain of that. 4. I'm not familiar with the DCC and Sound prospects for the 2-8-8-2, but I seem to recall that it is not a major deal to convert to DCC...sound always complicates things a bit. I'll try to find a turorial online. (may even be one on Trainboard) Regardless, if you like the loco, find a way to get it converted because it sounds like that's the one you'll really love to run. 5. The SW1200 is a great little loco and can be converted, but it's gonna be a little bit more of a project than the others. There are a couple of tutorials online, but most are a little dated and much smaller decoders are available now to make it a little easier. (Check out the Lenz Gold Mini or Silver Mini) Sound is probably not an option for this one unless you like microsurgery and working with radioactive metals. ;-) 6. The DD40 is the problem child. Probably a lot of work to convert to DCC, and it seems a common theme is that these things will break easily. (gears, dead motor, etc.) Since you've already noted it isn't ideal for the smaller layout, I would sell it or use it for static display. Enjoy! Sounds like you are already having fun and that's the important thing.
Try this site. It has a wealth of information on DCC and conversion. http://www.trainweb.org/nrmrc/dcc/conversions.html Despite the previous post's statements on the Bachmann system, if you are looking for an easy almost idiot proof system, go with that. The Digitrax would be a close second. Keep in mind that the non-Bachmann systems can have a convoluted or complex set of programming procedures. I personally own several of the Digitrax DCC systems and the Bachmann systems. The Digitrax is the more "professional" approach, but equally complex. I guess your choice depends on how serious you are about converting to DCC. The non-Bachmann systems do not lend themselves to DC operation. Do some DCC conversion research and see which direction you want to go. Also, running a DC engine on a DCC system that is set to DC operation CAN cause an overheating problem. That is a fact. I have personally had this occur. This event occured on a Digitrax high-end system. This isn't an issue with the Bachmann system because you simply changeout the controllers. Does it "hurt" the engine? I'll leave that up to you to decide.
Oh yeah.. I forgot to mention, the 2-8-8-2 is also not friendly with smaller layouts with tighter radiuses. So, I will simply PM you a mailing address you can send it.. lol.. The DD40 like mentioned is a trouble child, and notorous for it's cracked gear problems. HOWEVER, ebay loves them, and you can pay for other projects with them. I bought about 10 brand new, or like new condition of those awhile back from an estate, just to sell off to fund other things. I was getting over $200 ea for those junky things, and the lowest I got for one was $80, and that one was used, with 7 of 8 broken drive gears. It was listed as such and for parts only, and still sold for $80. Prices have dropped for them on ebay bow, but for the plus, and spectrum versions, they still bring better prices than they sold for new. EBAY it, and use that torwards your DCC.
Of the locos you list, there are Plug 'n Play decoders available for the 3 Katos. Not quite as simple as it sounds but doable by following the instructions and no soldering involved. The LL locos will require soldering. Not sure about the Bachmann. My soldering skills were always questionable and some paralysis in my soldering hand from a stroke has not improved these skills. I can achieve most PnP installations with the help sometimes of my wife's right hand. I have done numerous Katos and some Atlas. The rest I bite the bullet and pay a professional installer. Edit: Dang, 3 posts while I was only typing. No wonder I don't solder. Ben
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I will get the DD40 on ebay pronto and based on what I can get for it might go a long ways toward deciding which DCC system to purchase. I'll keep the 2-8-8-2 (thanks for the offer though Tudor!) and the other loco's for now and see about those Kato conversion decoder boards. Guess I better get busy....
On the DD40, pm me if you would like some ebay tips with it. I was very successful selling those, I credit to marketing, and honesty. I can show you a template or example I used that got alot of hits. The biggest thing is concentrat on it's strong points. Be VERY honest with what it is, and if it is a plus, or a spectrum poiint out clearly that it is the 2 motor, 16 wheel drive version. The older standard versions only had one motor, and only two of the trucks on one end were powered. VERY weak, and could barely pull it's own weight, let along adding cars. The Plus and spectrum was still not as strong as it should have been, but MUCH better than the earlier. The $200 a pop days are gone I am afraide, but, the later versions still bring more than they sold originally for, if marketed right. BTW: Welcome to the forum..
Welcome to TrainBoard, Augy! Also check the capabilities of the various DCC starter systems to program sound decoders without modifications to the programming track mode. There seems to be a lot of discussion currently regarding the limited power available on programming tracks to support a sound decoder. To this, NCE's PowerCab appears the only DCC starter system out-of-the-box to handle the power requirements of some sound decoders. Whether this includes the MRC sound decoders I can't say - sound's not of much interest to me. For the Katos, non-sound boards are available from Digitrax and NCE (some?).
I am now leaning heavily between choosing either the Digitrax Zephyr or the NCE Power Cab. If sound is a priority of mine (which, at this time, I think it is), what would I need beyond the Zephyr Basic to get sound out of at least one locomotive? Gats states above that the NCE is the only one that can handle sound "out of the box". Is there a reason to get the Zephyr rather than the Power Cab if price is about the same? Thanks again for the help.
I run a Zephyr on my home layout and last night had 3 engines with the MRC 1636 sound decoders in them running for about an hour without any issue. So where he came up with the NCE being the only one to handle sound I have no idea. The only limitation that the Zephyr might have is it only has 0-9 function buttons, the NCE might have more, but even then I have a DT400R that I have for the club or setting up engines that has 0-12 function buttons. Also I've used my Zephyr to set up some HO sound loco's for an uncle of mine and test run them on a loop of unitrack without issue.
Ok, I just found this link which should prove useful. Maybe someone else can benefit as well.... [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]The Digitrax[/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]®) [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Zephyr[/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold](tm) [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]VS. The NCE [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]®) [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]PowerCAB [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold](tm) [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]By Thomas P. Metzger [/FONT] http://www.qualitymodelrailroads.com/DigitraxVS_NCE.pdf
For very modest layouts and ambitions, the Bachmann system is OK. If you've read a bit about DCC, you'll know there are low and high addresses. Low is a two digit number (1-99) while high is a four digit number (giving you thousands of addresses). I bought the Bachmann DCC system for my test loop and was disappointed that it only supported a few (9?) low addresses, and no high addresses. Since I use high addresses (such as the loco's number), it was pretty useless. I can't comment on the NCE Powercab; I have their high-end system and love it compared to Digitrax. Much more intuitive interface. The Raleigh, NC club cited above has put together a wonderful site of installations. The LL 2-8-8-2 is not too difficult compared to some others. I haven't done mine yet, but I've done much more difficult ones. Reading through the directions, it looks very doable, although I'd practice my soldering skills if I were a beginner. If you follow each step exactly, you should be able to do it. Welcome to Trainboard.
Take a very hard look at the NCE Powerhouse Pro system. I'm very happy with mine. The keyboards on the Pro Cabs are laid out logically, and the system is very intuitive. It doesn't need a four volume manual and a cheat sheet to consist two locos...The Power Cab system would also be a nice starter for a smaller layout. I'm considering purchasing one for a portable switching layout.
Well, I'm pretty certain the Bachmann system is out. I'm trying to decide between the NCE Power Cab and the Digitrax Zephyr. I'm suffering from "paralysis by analysis" about now! I like the NCE product but I'm not sure it would be the best choice for my 2 young boys. I think the tactile feel of the Zephyr's "throttle" lever would be more natural to a young'n than the push button control on the NCE unit. Maybe I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time!) about that but considering they are used to a standard "dial" type of throttle the push button control on the NCE would be an adjustment. I know kids are incredibly adaptable (I'm reminded of this daily) I just want something simple enough not to distract from the real point of running the trains. I think some more analysis and then lots of sleep might help
I never said NCE is the only one to operate sound-equipped locos "out of the box" but, through inference, is capable of programming some sound decoders that other systems have problems with, including it's big brother the Powerhouse Pro. This is due to the greater (milli)amperage output of the PowerCab in programme mode. These are documented problems which may or may not have bearing with N Scale sound decoders. Being uninterested in the sound side of DCC I can't say which, if any, are involved here. All DCC systems will operate sound-equipped locos but the number of locos will vary due to the total output of the system and the load (locos + accessories). Also, the number of function outputs handled will differ as well which may factor into the decision. If I caused confusion with my original post, I apologise. (I have the PowerCab and think it's great - easy and intuitive and has a great rotary dial secondary cab available, the Cab04P)
My 10-year-old daughter had no problem getting to grips with my PowerCab on her first go, and she'd only been used to the standard "dial" Gaugemaster controller previously. The PowerCab is a terrific starter unit; just add the PowerHouse Pro system box at a later date and 'hey Presto' you're the proud owner of a Powerhouse Pro system :tb-biggrin:
