Ok, as yall know I'm modeling the New River Pass, which used to be an Norfolk and Western line. Here is my question, How many passenger cars did the J's pull in real life back when N&W was still doing regular passenger service? The reason I'm asking is that I want to create a realistic operation when I run my J's. Any help is appericated Thank you.
Not sure but I think it pulled a 6 car train , at least on the Arrow. They would also pull other passanger trains though. so just about any mix of heavyweights would look fine too.....Mike
ok Thanks, I also heard about 7-8 cars, I think I'll do 8 cars with a baggage, because I watch a video on N&W operating the J's and I did see a baggage car.
Testing my new Avatar hmm its suspose to be the N&W logo [ 11. March 2003, 14:56: Message edited by: Poltergeist ]
Lookin fine! The J passenger lines pulled many different lengths and styles of trains. They even pulled some made up of modern streamlined cars and heavyweights. Pick up a copy of The Last Steam Railroad in America by O. Winston Link. You can get it at www.amazon.com and other book websites. It is a fabulous pictorial during the last days of great steam, and you will be able to see a lot of the railroad to model.
The Norfolk & Western Historical Society Commissary has the a good book to answer your question. www.nwhs.org or http://www.nwhs.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/ecomm_prod_snaps/book_nw_pass.html?L+ecomm+pmdh0351+1047507900 The Powhattan Arrow was daylight train, no sleepers. Usually it had 3-4 coaches, diner and observation car. All lightweights. It ran like this until the mid-50's and then mail handling/express cars started to show up on the front-end. When they replaced the J's with diesels the rounded observation car came off the end of the Powhattan Arrow. These cars were then sold to the Royal Saudi Arabian Railways. The other passenger trains on the main between Cincinnati, Columbus and Roanoke were the Cavalier and the Pocohantas. The Pocohantas was the overnight train with sleepers. The N&W named there sleepers after local colleges or counties of the states the mainline went through. The Cavalier was the other main train. I believe it ran on a slower schedule with more stops. It could probably be seen with various equipment especially with a lot of head-end cars. It has been said that a J could easily handle up to 15 cars per train. I have seen pictures of long trains behind a J but I never counted the cars. I hope that helps. BTW I own that book and it is well worth the money and interesting reading if you are a N&W fan! [ 12. March 2003, 17:42: Message edited by: ajy6b ]
Sean, you could re-create the last of the steam excursions with 611. In 1993 I caught up with her at Appomattox where an excursion was stopped for a meal served by local folks. There were 23 cars in her mostly matching N&W, N-S and private car consist. Powerful engine, that. A few days later I was really awed when the NKP 765 hauled 33 cars up the New River Gorge.
Hi Fitz; The J had 80,000 lbs of tractive effort, versus the Berkshire's a bit less than 70,000lbs. At the end of steam on the N&W, the J's were used in freight service, and had the same time freight ratings as the Y3, something like 3500-4000 tonnes west of Williamson. Meaning 35 - 40 passenger cars.
I heard that 611 was the strongest of the 13 J's and that she is the strongest 4-8-4 ever, is this true or what?
Nigel, welcome to Trainboard! We can use some more REAL steam guys here. Sounds like you know your stuff. Sean, I don't know the answer to that, and doubt that anyone will ever know. MY railroad claimed that there were no stronger 4-8-4's than the Niagaras. Unfortunately they were all scrapped.
Not to start a fire in here but. The Western Maryland's "Potomac" J-1's, were 4-8-4 an had boilers bigger in diameter then a NW Y6b! But the WM J-1's had 96,300 lbs of tractive effort! As a 4-8-4, an were said to beat the WM's M-2 Challengers! These Challengers had 95,500 lbs of tractive effort compared to the J-1's WM Potomac's! WM Potomac total weight...... 506,500 pounds. WM Challenger total weight.1,017,330 pounds. To me thats a BIG weight differnce..... Comparing the TE between the two loco's.... EDIT: Forgot to say, that the WM's J-1's were extremely slippery as well, built for high speed freight service. BUT, I took this information from a Western Maryland loco publication on the M-2 Challenger when delivered from Baldwin, along with the WM J-1's also from Baldwin that was a loco report to the WM's "Department of Motive Power" dated in 1948. The Challengers were delivered in 1941, an the Potomacs were delivered in 1947. I then checked the Wess Barris site Wess Barris And it lists the J-1 Potomac's, to weigh 506,500 pounds, and have 70,600 pounds of tractive effort.... So, the question is....... Who really knows ???? [ 13. March 2003, 07:31: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
I was orginally going with an un-known N&W line, New River Pass in VA, but now that I think about it, I may just do The Powhattan Arrow, since that is one of the things the J's are known for. Now this is a poster I want in my room hehehehe
