Greetings fellow engineers! I am returning to model railroading after over 20 years on hiatus. When I was a young teen I had a dedicated room for trains and belonged to The Sierra Nevada Model Railroad Club in Stockton, CA. (and they had a heluva layout!) Fast forward through college, starting a career then a family, and here I am now.. and I miss my trains! I recently completed my MANCAVE addition to my house. During the construction of the bar I agonized on the perfect material for a bar counter top. One night I was discussing with my wife my desire to build a cocktail table train set once the addition was done and we both had the brainstorm at the same time; the bar counter was the PERFECT location for me to re-enter the model railroad hobby! So far I have only set up a temporary layout to play with while I accumulate and build the items I will need. (I've already built a scale replica of the house I grew up in and the bar I hung out at in college) It is a FANTASTIC conversation piece! I've had a few problems - one was a brand new Bachmann Spectrum DCC 2-8-0 had problems so I had to send it to Bachmann for service. The online vendor told me that is the only choice. Bachmann said it will take 8 WEEKS to return it. FFS! Is that normal or am I dealing with a crap vendor? Is this the norm for vendor and manufacturer alike? Also, a friend gave me a 10 yr old Bachmann engine, Santa Fe 0-6-0 DC power only. One of the wheels keeps falling off for no reason. I would love to know if there is a way to fix it. Also - is it too old to convert to DCC? Anyway - my REAL question is about setting up my permanent layout under the bar. My wife had an idea that I wanted to ask some experienced railroaders about; but first - some pictures: Trains under glass. My original plan was to just affix the track to the sub-countertop and then do scenery right in the box. However,there are two issues; one being that there is an overhang. I would be limited on where I could put under-table wires and mechanisms. The other being that my wife and I would prefer to limit the number of blemishes and holes I put on the sub-counter. We had the idea of building a second surface which I could lay in the bar counter case. One with a void under it big enough to run wires and switch mechanisms - I figure 3/8-1/2 inch. Of course, as you can see from the photos below - it would have to be modular in order to fit through the top openings and also to allow for reasonable access to maintain the wires etc. under it. I am guessing each module would be around 15w"x30" or so. (The bar is about 30" wide, 6" deep and around 10' long) By going modular I would also be able to swap out pieces on occasion - such as during Christmas I could have a Christmas downtown with snow! Here is my question - will I regret trying to do this modular? I see lots of technical difficulties. I anticipate I would have to lay out and tack down the track outside of the table. How would I connect the tracks between the modular pieces? I would install the scenery once the track is in the table. I plan to have some raised sections and mountains. Lifting out the flat parts would be easy, but should I ever need to access under the mountain section it could be problematic... Finally - I also am looking for suggestions on switch controller placement. I plan to have about 16 switches. I have my controls in a 12" wide drawer. I need to figure out how to lable the switches so I know which ones go where and what position the switches are in in a very tight space. Any suggestions? Thanks -Eric BTW - here is a photo of the whole bar for anyone interested;
If you have any Belgian beer on tap, I'm coming over. Very nice bar setup! A couple of observations: Even though your layout is designed modular, you want a good, solid track system so you don't have to lift those heavy slabs of sheet glass every time someting derails. It seems you want that layout for ability to run trains. Would Kato Unitrack be a good option? It might be difficult to lay sectional or flextrack in a depressed surface such as yours. Do you plan to scenic the area? Trees, hills, grass, etc? Being a runner layout, I would remove any turnouts, to minimize derailments. Again; heavy glass, etc. You noted keeping blemishes to the counter surfact under the glass minimized. If it were me, I would leave the wood finish alone to the maximum extent possible. It's beautiful. Running trains just the way you have it would be fine with me. The more you handle that glass, the more chance it has to get broken. These are just some ideas. As far as your engines that Bachmann 2-8-0 is one of the best steamers in N scale. The 0-6-0 is a trainset engine, and they are likely a dime a dozen on auction sites. If you want good steam, you are hard pressed to beat that Bachmann 2-8-0, but a Kato 2-8-2 or 4-8-4 is also a good schoice as well. What prototype do you model?
Welcome to TrainBoard! That's quite the man cave. Please send us some photos, as railroad construction moves further along. Boxcab E50
Nothing against drinking but I just don't- medical etc- and I don't have a bar as such in my house. But I am doing the opposite of Eric L. I have a bar in my N scale.
You could lay a piece of 1/2" foam on top of the wood. That would allow you to run any wires under the foam, and scenery wouldn't affect the finish of the bar top..mike
I was going to suggest the same thing. 1/2" foam over the top. So nothing on that very nice bar gets messed up. love the room. Is that a supersized chess set? If so where did you get the pieces. that is an awesome idea. Im about to retile the big room in my house.....
As with Hemi, I was going to suggest unitrack if you are really serious about wanting switches, since theirs are self contained. Then, all you would have is wiring. But, I would also keep the switching simple, to minimize the need to access. Foam, too, will be a great way to go. Another benefit on Unitrack, if you really want to go modular, is that you can use their expansion pieces to for where the tracks cross the sections, making for easy attach/reattach. And, foam will give you the ability to work terrain into the scenery. But, I also love the simplicity of what you are showing now.
Yes, We have a giant chess set in the cave. We found the pieces at a site called megachess.com I think. Nice pieces but make sure to check them THE DAY they arrive - shipping warranty is only good for 3 days from shipping. Our cave wasn't done yet so we left them in the shipping container. Big mistake as a few were broken in shipping. The owner of the co is working with me. I also should point out the floor - we went with concrete stain. It cost about the same as tile but is much more appealing imho. We had a chess board included In the design. Some of these ideas I will have to look into for my trainset. Time is short now but I will certainly have questions later. Thanks everyone for the replies -E Btw - I have a pilsner and a red ale on tap right now and am brewing a wheat beer next. I also have a bar in my trainset... in my bar. Here: The original Joe's Bar at Chico, CA and MY Joe's Bar - Port Charlotte, FL The wood came out much too glossy. I had it looking real good and used thinner to try removing a blemish. Whoops. I will paint it again another day. Still - I am happy with the result. Once I have it in some landscaping it will look even more close to home.
Not much of a fan of Pils, but reds are good, as are hefeweisens. Concrete stain? I'm assuming it works the same as wood stain. I just never heard of it before. To keep it train-related, do you have a collection of beer boxcars? No better way to show them off.
I've not been able to find beer boxcars and thought about making my own. I also thought maybe tank cars would be more appropriate. My first custom painted train, however, will be a "Florida Gators Express". Painted the appropriate colors with the mascot featured prominently. It will certainly be steam powered with an engine in the proud Gator colors. ( I didn't go to school there but my kids aspire to - I went to CSU Chico -another great college town - I am far from home now). Here is a site where you can find examples of what can be done with stained concrete. We really love ours; Concrete Floors - Photo Gallery - The Concrete Network I had a pro do it. He was a bit new to it and there are some blemishes, but only if you know where to look. We are quite happy with it overall. Back to trains; I have always thought unitrack looked sorta amateurish.. Of course - that was 20 years ago when it was all Marklin. What is the advantage now? I have had little troubles with derailments so far with my temporary layout. The only troubles I have is that a few corners are a bit too tight for my 2-8-0 to pull cars through. Also, occasionally the adhesive that I put under the tracks un-sticks in some places which leads to separation at the joints. I have used both flex track and snap track. Once I have it tacked down permanently that should fix the separation problem - and the permanent layout I've designed avoids sharp turns. I do have a little trouble with the grade being too steep on my cross-over... thought I don't know I could do it any less so. Is there a way to give my trains better traction? Lifting the glass really isn't that hard. I do it all the time. It is 3/8 tempered glass. I use a suction handle, pull the opposite side and slide it six to ten inches. I only had to remove it when I was laying the track. It isn't that heavy - part of the reason I had them split it into four sections. I am still getting used to layout design software. I got the basic shape of what I want my permanent layout to be then hand drew the rest for my benefit. I will share it here once I get the hang of the software and make it right. Essentially my bar will have four sections. The one closest to the fridge will be the 'beach' section. It will be just two sections of track that curve back to the layout. One will come out on a dogleg on piers over water. I am VERY nervous about making the water and beach. The next section will be the rail yard. It will have a few turnouts, turntable and a roundhouse. The third section is the town. It will be nestled in a valley with the rail line on each side going up the hill to... The fourth section - furthest from the fridge - which is the vineyard. It will be 'mountainous' (so much as I can do in 6") with a tunnel at the far end as one track passes under the other and a bridge at the other side where it passes back. I plan to be able to switch it for four separate loops or to open it to one continuous double loop. That way if I am entertaining and not able to babysit it I can set four independent loops, but if I am actively managing it I can run four engines on one loop. I am tempted to go with the simple un-detailed approach some of you mentioned, but I really think that finishing it will add to the fun - not to mention sentimental-ness of it. You mentioned putting the track on foam. That is interesting. What then, just slice the foam to bury wires in it? What about under-track switches? How would I manage that in foam? I have to admit - I have no experience with under-track switches (the train club I was in had already installed them... and it was 30 years ago). Would I just 'dig' out the foam? That is an intriguing idea.
If you use foam the wires will just lay under the foam. Just don't have them bunch up. I recommend Kato Unitrack for a number of reasons. 1 its bullet proof, once its down correctly it wont move around on you. 2 easy to work with. 3 good variety of special track pieces. 4 the turnouts have the motors mounted in the roadbed- no need to have any kind of holes for the switch motors. Now a possible option would be the Atlas True Track, but they don't have the variety of pieces that Kato does, and I don't know how the turnouts are made.....Mike
Here is a very rough draft of the permanent layout I have proposed. I really don't have the hang of the software yet - it gives me a heluva time on turnouts! I have highlighted the two core lines in green and orange - which can each be divided into two loops. The yellow line represents the crossover point where I can make the green and orange into one continuous loop. You can't see elevations here, but the orange to the right is elevated above the green - which passes through tunnels and bridges under the orange. It then goes down to the same level as green around the rail yard. An astute observer will notice that the yellow lines are too short and will result in clearance/grade problems. Remember the part about the software not getting along with me? The yellow line will be longer and merge further to the left. I just gave up drawing it. I likely still will need the yellow line to grade up some after the bridge to meet the orange on it's grade down. I can't think of any other way or location to do the crossover. There is a few other places also where I fudged, but the basic idea is there. Surely someone more acquainted with the software could do a better job, but considering that I have about three hours on it - I consider it acceptable.
Hi Everyone; Sorry it has been so long. I had my hands full most of last year with some unexpected charity work. Along the way I only had time for a couple scale models; the house where I live, the house I grew up in, and a 1885 time machine (DeLorean rail runner) It is finally time for me to get back on track (yuk-yuk) I've reviewed the advice here and I have some questions; The KATO unitrack is a unique idea. I already have a bunch of flex track, but not enough. I don't have any turnouts. I had considered Atlas under-table turnout motors, but I hear they are a pain plus drilling is a concern. The unitrack is a unique solution I will have to consider. I have to buy new track regardless... The foam underlay was something I had considered. I thought it might even work for laying Atlas turnout motors directly under the track without drilling. I hear nothing but bad stuff about the Atlas motors and I'm not even sure 1/2" is enough space for them, so I think not. (though I am interest in the Atlas switch controls with the lighted indicators, are they compatible with Kato?) In addition - I have only 6" of clearance in the layout: giving up 1/2" of precious ceiling space is daunting. Of course, I could 'dig out' where the clearance matters... I haven't planned the scenery that far yet. I have a pirate ship that is close to scale which is 1/16" short of the ceiling right now... I did re-work my track plans. The plans I made earlier have too much trouble; either I ruin into problems with elevation/grade or I have to give in on turn radius. (my bar is 30 7/8" wide in longest part - which may even prove problematic with the kato unitrack 15" radius turns now that I consider it...) anyway, here are the newest plans. I can run three trains independent with this. Also - I have opted to go with dc instead of dcc. (Even though I have alot of dcc equipment) DCC is alot more expensive and limiting and I really don't get much benefit. The occasions where I run three trains on one loop are VERY rare. Usually I am too busy pouring beer and socializing. With a glass ceiling/lid I can't even do sound - so DC it is. You may be interested to know I'm in the process of wiring external sound with speakers under the bar and buttons placed around the rim for my guests to press for an interactive experience. I am kitbashing a MRC Symphony 77 Sound Station with a home stereo and some radio shack buttons. Cross your fingers for me please... I also am considering scenery. I have to build grades and that intimidates me a little, mostly how I incorporate the scenery; I've seen where some people just use joint filling compound where the foam meets the grade and then paint it all. I've seen others use paper mache. I like the first solution for simplicity sake, but I've never tried either... I still have to consider more about the scenery I will have. Mountains to the left (on the isometric image) for sure (the software I used for the design has quite limited scenery options) The center will be my village - with an underpass going under the track in the center. The right will be my rail yard. I've not yet figured out what industry to put there. I had considered a distillery or brewery, but most people would not recognize the buildings as such without a brand label, and I have no brand loyalty (being a home-brewer). Anyway, this is alot of info in one post, I hope it isn't too disjointed. I appreciate your input on any and all topics. I hope to get started on this within the next 30 days, so I am eager to hear? (read) your thoughts. Thanks -E
Hmmmm.... Eric... you probably don't want to do a tunnel on this layout because it will be nearly impossible to fix any derailment within the tunnel. An alternative to losing 1/2" of height... albeit not much better... is to use 1/4" or 3/16" foam core board sections. http://www.utrechtart.com/Elmers-Gu...ack-On-Black--10-Ctn-MP41422-i1017329.utrecht You can make grooves in it to run wires and glue track directly to the paper surface AND... glue some 1/16" cork sheet material which could be built-up to make roadbed too. http://www.utrechtart.com/Midwest-Project-Cork-Roll--1-16-x-24-x-48-in-MP45667-i1015616.utrecht You can build-up terrain using scrap pieces of foam and use Woodland Scenics inclines risers to elevate roadbed. http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1412/page/1 It will be difficult to build this outside of the bar and fit it between the overhangs... planning the assembly into the space is more difficult than designing the layout. Using a roadbed with track sectional system like Kato Unitrack would be easier than trying to keep other types of track in guage while fitting it into the space. I think it will be very difficult to create a modular system that can be 'easily' changed out.
Welcome aboard and very nice bar and the possibilities are WOW! Can't wait to see your progress. Have fun Glen
Thanks Calzephyr; I've been thinking about it and I am leaning towards using the 1/2" foam and sculpting it/cutting down where I need more clearance. I can prop the foam board up to get the grades I need. Losing 1/2" isn't too bad if I can still sculpt it down. Might look nice. I forgot to mention that I've given up on the modular idea. This will be a permanent layout. I do plan to have the tunnel, but I am going to try making the section over it removable. With enough roughage over the seams it should be invisible. If that doesn't work then I'll 'convert' my tunnel into a ravine. I am starting to doubt myself on the scenery. Probably just nerves. Never done it before. Never built a scratch model car in n-scale before either, but mt DeLorean came out well enough... It still scares me though. I know I want a river but I can't figure where to put it. Not sure what structures to put in my elevated section either. Will it be mountain looking? Hilly? or just a new plane? sigh... My track choices are either Atlas flex track or kato unitrack. If I could be certain that the Atlas switches would work well buried under the foam it'd be an easier decision, but still not one-sided; I do find it mildly frustrating bending the curves into flex track. Kato makes a unique switched crossing that would fit well in this layout which atlas does not offer. However running the flex track lets me make more natural snake twists - which I use to pull the action away from the guest side bar edge for better visibility for them. I worry that the unitrack would make that look too uniform. I will play with my track planning software this weekend and see if this plan is even feasible with unitrack. If it isn't, then the decision will be simple. If it is.... well crap. I am definitely going with DC. I will likely sell my Zephyr controller on Ebay. I plan to make a custom control panel that I will conceal in a drawer on the bar side. I really like the atlas turnout controls with indicator lights - I hope they are compatible with the Kato powered turnouts... ? If not I need something that will work similarly. I got the MRC Symphony 77 and found the sound controls disappointing. The sounds are OK, but the controls are very limiting. It insists I run ambient sounds weather I want them or not. All I flippin want is a whistle, a bell and an air horn at volume and duration I can control. Is that too much to ask? Grrr. I appreciate everyone's suggestions, interest and ideas. If anything I put up is crap I'd rather learn about it now, BEFORE I am up to my elbows in foam bits. Thanks all. -E
