First, a bit about my layout. It is the simplest configuration possible; a double oval with no blocks and no crossovers. Operation consists only of running trains around the walls. I have no current need of DCC for controlling multiple trains on a single track (although I may incorporate a center passing siding/crossover configuration into my layout in the future). Also, my primary modeling interest is 50s era passenger, so my motive power tends to be matched sets of E or F units which don't require DCC for consisting unlike engines to run at equal speeds. So why am I considering DCC? Primarily for lighting effects (headlight on/off options and constant lighting of passenger consists). Here's what I'm looking for: a) reliability b) easy decoder installation into Kato E and F units c) ample power for lighting long passenger car consists and running up to four engines (i.e. ABBA) on both of my loops (i.e. think eight engines and 24 lighted cars at once) Cost is secondary to ease and reliability. What are the best options out there for basic systems and decoders? Are there advantages to buying all one brand? I will appreciate any advice offered.
Jack: I would recommend the Lenz 100 system to you. It's cost is $279 and it's 5 amps of power will be more than sufficient to meet your power requirements. The Lenz 100 system has a handheld controller which is easy to use. The Lenz system is easy to learn and has an easier learning curve than most DCC systems. The JJJ&E is a double mainline layout and I model the steam transition era. Besides steam I always run F units in ABBA combinations with long trains of 28-30 cars. The 28 car restraint is due to the size of the smallest reversing unit which would hold 28 cars plus an ABBA. The Lenz 100 system has the more than ample power to run your long consists of passenger equipment. I suggest you read the DCC Primer for Beginners from Tony's Trains. There' alot of great DCC info on that site. http://http://tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm Here is the Lenz USA site: http://http://lenz.com/ Digitrax drop-in decoders are used on the Kato "F" and "E" units. You can use any decoder with any DCC system. Stay cool and run steam.....
How many locos will you run at one time? That will determine your amperage needed. You cannot go wrong with either Lenz, Digitrax, or NCE. People argue what brand is better, but anymore they all are pretty much in the same range of quality and function for most users. I use a zephyr. 170$ or so, depending where you get it. Hand held controllers are only about 40$ for the basic unit. It has analog jumpers so you can attach transformers as extra cab controllers for the system. Shop around and find the system that works for you.
Jack's power requirements are more than running two trains of ABBA units. He always plans to run 24 fully lighted Kato passenger cars along with everything else a DCC layout uses. The Lenz 100 more than adequately fits his requirements. Unfortunately the Digitrax Zephyr falls considerably short meeting his criteria. The Lenz 100 system is the best value for the money in meeting the requirements needed. Stay cool and run steam.....
Thanks Bob. I've started to review those links and they have some great info. Do you use the Lenz 100? If so, what power supply do you use with it?
Jack: I originally started with a Lenz 01 Professional which was the best system Lenz made 7 plus years ago. I now use the Lenz 100 system and use part of the Lenz 01 Professional in a second power district. The Lenz 100 system supplies power to the double mainline track and sidings. The 01 Professional supplies power to the turntable module, switching yard , and the fourth addition which also includes a seven track fifteen foot staging yard. The Lenz 100 has 5 amps of power and the 01 professional has four amps of power. The total power on the layout isn't 9 amps. Its 5 and 4. I usually run two full ABBA units trains if I'm not running steam. With steam I usually consist three loco's together. I can also run switching loco's in the San Marino yard on the upper level as well as loco's in the main switching yard at the same time. Lenz recommends a power supply of 15.5 volts for the Lenz 100 system ( a strict requirement). I've met and know Debbie Ames personally(she runs Lenz NA in Chelmsford Mass) and Debbie sent me a power supply when I upgraded to the Lenz 100 system. The 15.5 volt power supplies run in the $30 range. Stay cool and run steam....
I suggest to go take a look at them all, try them in your hand for feel, see the display, and hopefully the hobby shop can let you power it up, try it. brand wise, they are all very similar, but the throttles are what is different. Not just the look of the throttles, but also way they work. The NCE PowerCab ($140) is the hottest thing in DCC and the latest system out there. It has a lot of great features including current meter and a more intuitive/friendly design with most common buttons on the front and well marked. while the Lenz is an older style interface like an older cellphone or calculator where you have a bunch of generic keys and you have to work through menus, submenus, layers etc. The Digitrax Zephyr is also in that NCE PowerCab price range but has no hand held throttle - more of a base station style and more limited on features. You really do not need a lot of power for N scale. 1 amp is enough for about 4-5 locos. 5 amps can weld a derailed loco wheel to the track. if you go with 5 amps, you should split up that power into two districts. Again, I recommend that you go take a look at them all, try them in your hand for feel, the fell of the button when you push, how big or small the buttons are or close together, etc. Look at the display, how clear, the amount of info, how it looks to you, and hopefully the hobby shop can let you power it up, try it. :thumbs_up: Good Luck!
If you bothered to read NorsemanJack's post CAREFULLY, his requirements for a DCC system state, that he wants to run at least two trains, each with an ABBA unit and 24 LIGHTED passenger cars. One - two amps won't cut that. In over seven years with a 4 and then a 5 amp power supply on the JJJ&E, a derailed loco wheel or any car wheel never has welded to the track. Most decent DCC systems have an automatic circuit breaker if there's a short circuit. Each power district requires it's own command station. How do you split up a 5 amp power command system into two power districts. If you use one command station of 5 amps in two power districts, the power in each district will be five amps and not 2 1/2 amps in each district. Stay cool and run steam.....
I use the Digitrax Super Chief with a 5 amp power supply. The "N scale" voltage applied to the track is 11.8 volts (max) and if there is a short, the power will shut down immediately. Today I ran 4 freight trains at the same time with 2-3 kato locos each and 25-35 cars each train with no problem. I have run 6 trains one being the zephyr with all the passenger cars lit and had no problem. I have signals and currently about 20 tortoise switch machines connected as well but I will be splitting things into a couple districts to make troubleshooting much easier because of the size of my layout. Before you buy; it would be nice to check a couple of them out on some local home or club layouts to see what you like, what you don't like and what you really need. Good luck, Brian
I read his info well. The NCE PowerCab comes with a max 2 amps ($140), but you can add the smart booster for $78 more ($218 total) and have 3 amps total as well as the other features of adding the smart booster. And if needed, a "dumb booster" can be added for an additional 3 amps for $62 more ($280 total for 6 amps and NCE interface & features.) would be great as he could have 3 amps per oval. but he should be fine with 3 amps total on the whole layout. His needs should be right around/slightly over 2 amps. therefore a 3 amp system would be fine. I've operated 10 locos and others idle with lights and passenger car lights, etc and have been right around 2 amps total. if the lights are LED (he did not say but I recommend LED with DCC), the LED's use very little current. May of the experts have warned that while not common, the small scale of N scale parts, wheels, track, frogs, etc that at 5 or more amps can have a welding effect. while rare, it is something to be aware of. for power districts: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/new_pscombo_details.htm NorsemanJack Like I said, I suggest you look at and touch/feel and demo if possible the different systems to see what fits/fell right for you. Lenz 100 cab: NCE PowerCab: PowerCab is $134 here: http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=1261
Read more carefully. Two trains, each with ABBA diesels and 12 lighted passenger cars. The 24 cars is for both trains together.
I know that each train has 12 passenger cars for a total of 24 cars.Read my first response to TrainGeekBoy. "Jack's power requirements are more than running two trains of ABBA units. He always plans to run 24 fully lighted Kato passenger cars along with everything else a DCC layout uses." Stay cool and run steam.....
Thanks for the continuing inputs guys. It sounds like I have some homework to do. It is good to hear some of the popular options, as that will allow me to focus my time on learning about DCC. I'm definitely looking for a solution that will offer ample power, as my experience is that not enough power can be more detrimental to electronics than too much. Kozmo: can you elaborate (at a high level) regarding the "other features of adding the smart booster?"
Power Station SmartBooster for NCE PowerCab - SB3 Part Number: SB3 This booster is an add-on to the PowerCab system. Brings the total Amperage available to the system to 3 Amps. Allows a total of four cabs to be used (the PowerCab plus three more). When the SmartBooster is used, the PowerCab can be unplugged from the system and moved between throttle panels. http://www.ncedcc.com/ncetest/nce2_008.htm SB3 manual: http://www.ncedcc.com/ncetest/sb3_manual.pdf read these: http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2005/063005b.htm http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/powercab.htm http://www.tonystrains.com/download/df-powercab-rev.pdf Feel free to contact Tony for any questions. Phone: 800-978-3472 or 802-878-5005. info@tonystrains.com Litchfield station has free shipping on orders over $50.00. Feel free to contact Bruce for any questions. cell phone (623) 640-4060
Right. The main thing here is the 8 total locos. With LEDs in the cars, the power usage is pretty much a non-factor for the passenger cars. The rest of the layout is kinda the same. a switch is only a momentary thing (blip) unless using tortose slow moving switch machines. It does not sound like there will be lots of anything else with just the two ovals. no turntable, no idling locos - not that they take much of anything. 3 amps more than enough. and 2 might even do it but may be close. Jack, if you have a current meter (on a DMM? (digital multimeter)) you could just put everything on the track with the current meter in series and run the trains see what it all draws (current wise) using your DC pack. take the highest reading and add a little for headroom You can always add more boosters later as you need them/grow. Questions for you Jack: 1) Are the passenger cars LED lights? 2) On the passenger car lights: Are you planning on wiring all the cars together? or using a decoder per car for lights? ($$$) or just have the lights always on when the layout power is on? Good Luck!
That is Bob's opinion. I believe it to be incorrect. here is why. For the same price ($280) as the Lenz 100, you can have a NCE PowerCab with both the 3 amp smart Booster & extra 3 amp dumb booster for a total of 6 amps. although you will only need 3 amps for what you have discribed. which would run you $218 in the PowerCab. The PowerCab is a much newer product with more features - current meter and a nicer display and more friendly interface as they call it. Also having the 2 seperate boosters (shdoul you decide you want/need them both) would allow Jack to have a booster per loop with no extra hardware, so that he could have 3 amps per loop and avoid 5 amps to all the tracks. Since it seems we are expressing opinions here. The Lenz 100 is a fine system. it has 10 year warranty and others do not. however it has not been updated for years. the cabs in my opinion leave a lot to be desired compared to the NCE PowerCab/ProCab design. In my opinion, The Lenz has a very dated 1980's calculator look. and also in my opinion I do not care for going through menu levels to get to the features/functions I want. But that is why I suggest you try them out Jack. as You may find you love the Lenz and hate the NCE or vise-versa. There is also the Digitrax systems that are also good products but hard to compete for the price (bang for buck) with the NCE PowerCab. I think you should go look at them in person and read alot more as we all have our favorite and opinions. what matters is what you like. :thumbs_up: Good Luck!
How can you you compare an entry level system at best to a high end system. At most you get 3 amps with the booster and the main unit. I would rather have five amps. The Lenz 100 system has so many more features than the NCE entry level system. The loco's that can be stored in the stack or memory on the NCE system is two. I do believe you can store 256 loco's in the Lenz 100 memory. Why would a modeler with a large layout want an entry level NCE Powercab system? The Lenz 100 system system can store 256 turnouts/signals in memory. How many for the NCE Powercab? Two? Five ? Ten? Even a modeler with a mid sized layout would need more than a NCE Powercab. The Lenz 100 system was released three years ago and upgrades come with the warranty. Kozmo, lets call your NCE system, an entry level system at best.That's all it is with all it's 3 amp boosters. You can't begin to compare Your NCE Powercab system to a high end Lenz 100 system or even a Lenz 90 system. You can't comapre it to high end Digitrax systems. Pretty soon, you'll have everyone believing the NCE Powercab is better than a Zimo system. The Digitrax Zephyr has more power and functions than your NCE Powercab system. You really don't need menu's on the NCE Powercab as the functions are limited at best. If you want to make comparisons to your NCE Powercab system, compare it to other entry level systems. Stay cool and run steam.....
Here is a discussion of the NCE Powercab that's ongoing in the Atlas DCC Forum: http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33743 It's an entry level system at best. Stay cool and run steam.....
Low cost entry level DCC systems Here' another ongoing discussion of Low cost entry level DCC systems in the Atlas DCC forum. http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33269 Stay cool and run steam......
