Hello friends, I'm starting this thread as I expand my horizons, and would appreciate any insight others may have. Quick background...started in HO very young, also have O and G. Moved in to N scale VERY receently, as we live in a town home and my son wants a train. Had a 4x8 n scale with Kato Unitrack, wife complained about the size. Agreed on a 36x80 HCD, on folding legs. So...I'm attaching a pic of the track plan so far. I did it on anyrail, with atlas code 55 and #7 turnouts. I'm not too particular about the track/prototype, etc...my 5 yo wants a train (and, well, so do I). It was based off of a blog I saw, nscaleaddiction, on the BNSF Marias Pass, but shrunk down to fit my dimensions. While focused on scenery and running trains, this does leave out some things I like, some buildings, etc... Appreciate your input.
Very nice. I like simple plans. My HCD (http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/group.php?discussionid=1329&do=discuss) is a mainline and a single siding. Rest is mountains. John Leaders (HuskerN here) has done a large series of small layouts, very well done, too. Using hills or mountains as view blocks, you can separate the layout into scenes, visually increasing the modeled space while sticking to a smaller one.
Thank you! That's kind of what I'm thinking...the left/river are would be a canyon/gorge type area (using at least two maybe three, 2" foam sheets on top of the HCD. Possibly hill(s) on the right inside the loop, or maybe a small town?? But I can't help think I'll want some sort of industry...coal or grain. Also have a few maxi stack container sets. Power currently coming from a FVM ES44ac, and a Kato SD70ace, and a F3A&B on the Santa Fe Super Chief passenger set. Thinking of adding one more loco, but in no hurry...need a layout before I add more trains...LOL!!!
Great pics of your layout...awesome attention to detail...makes me want to forget a city or industry....just scenic it and run trains!!
Looks like a nice plan, but the cutouts may be a problem. They are called HOLLOW core doors for a reason. It can be done, but it's tricky. Just something to keep in mind. Mark H.
While your design will have a lot of impressive scenery, I do think that both of you will get bored doing the roundy round after awhile. I strongly suggest putting in a turnout on the inner loop near the lowerbottom turnout and have at least a river-side industry at the least, a couple track storage yard & team track at the most. That will make the center of the layout one "destination" with either end others, as well as give your trains a reason to exist beyond "traveling through." Kids really do like switching, and the challenge of putting certain cars in certain places, as well as dropping off & loading passengers (be they people, GI Joes, or dinosaurs), and while there are plenty of scenery-building activities you can do with your kids, the end result (and the trains you get running soon), need to involved for engineers of all ages.
This little gem is a favorite of mine. Using the track they recommend, it (barely) fits in 24"x48". A 36"x80" HCD will let you easily stretch things and use larger radii curves or maybe double track it. It gives you a couple industries (I personally am thinking a grain elevator and team track), a run-around track, and there are places you can use for off layout staging in the lower left or upper right. Granny Kay and Bonnie BTW, if you haven't already bought it, look for cull HCDs that have some damage but are not really trashed. I picked up a few that way for big savings. Also, I would put 2" foam over the whole thing anyway and then you could cut out for water or something. Let us know your progress. Andy Tetsu Uma
I agree with what's been said... you should add an industry or a passenger station or something... It doesn't have to be a complicated puzzle to switch, but something to do at least. I wonder too about using Atlas code 55, I'd think for something like this for you to enjoy with the kids you should stick with the Kato Unitrack. The sooner the trains are running the more fun it will be for everybody, and with the near bullet proof reputation of Unitrack it will give you hassle free running too.
Ogre, yes, I thought about that. When I hung HCD closet doors that needed to be cut to length, I just reused the wood insert and was thinking I could do something similar. Another thought is to leave the HCD alone, and cut out the foam...more particularly for a place for the transformers in the lower-mid cutout are as I don't have DCC yet. MC Fujiwara, read your article...great ideas! My thinking, based on the BNSF Marias Pass that nscaleaddict did, was to have the rive about 4-6 inches below track level, like a gorge. I'm guessing you think I shouldn't do that, and should keep it closer to tack with industry. Good point on the passengers and dinos...need a station, which I forgot about. No point in a passenger train and no station, huh!? LOL TetsuUma, I have a Kato set of 8 bethgon coal cars, and a five other coal cars not from a set. I could do a coal mine and passenger station. Or, sell off the coal cars and go grain. I'm not too picky. Also have a few container/well cars, too. Didn't buy the HCD yet, hoping to this weekend, weather pending (Tropical system Isaac may be affecting us in Florida, not sure yet) and will look for the cull door. Kalbert, I enjoyed the Unitrack from it's ease perspective, but could not get the inner siding loop to tie in with outer main line with this design. Any thoughts? Might be a near complete redesign, but that's OK...easier now than when it's built! Appreciate the feedback...will start some redesigning tomorrow based on the comments so far. I do think the kids (I have a 10yo daughter, too) and I will get bored of round n round n round all too soon, but I don't want it overcrowded with industries, track or buildings. She's really more in to the building aspect than running...cant wait to let her read MC Fujiwara's article. One other thing...just an FYI...as space is tight, I "sold" this to my wife: instead of buying folding legs, I'm thinking of buying a 32x72 folding table. Then the layout can go on top. When our son has friends over, the layout can go on his top bunk bed and fold up the table. Keeps it out of the way nice and easy. Then she also has a folding table if we ever need one. Might have to have a lil BBQ for my train friends just to use the table Thoughts?
A coal mine would be good or you could even do both. Even if you don't go with a coal mine, you could run the Bethgons as a through coal train. I have a couple of those plastic folding tables and they are nice, even when I am not using them for trains. My wife likes having the extra table space available if she needs it. They usually go on sale around holiday times. As an alternative, I've had some success with folding plastic saw horses for HCD layouts. Andy Tetsu Uma
I'll take a look at Lowes & Home Depot for those, too, Andy. Got to work about a 45 minutes ago. Had our Hurricane prep meeting, now I can focus on my layout. Chris
My advice would be to not use a HCD for the layout especially if it is going to be moved around. Instead I would recommend a modular layout with modules no wider than 2 feet and no longer than 6 feet. Far easier to move especially through doorways. Have you ever tried to move a door through a doorway? How about then making a right angle turn and going up steps? But you seem to be past this stage already. But really folks, the HCD concept reinforces the small radius concept and the inevitable running of long wheelbase locomotives on 11 inch radius track. You can bet that his son will want to run the larger locomotives and the derailments will follow and the locomotive will be blamed when it is the small radius curves that will be the culprit. All because of the HCD.
I also have a HCD on a set of folding banquet table legs. I got mine at Lowes for $20. I screwed a couple of 1x4s per leg to the door frame to give the legs something to attach to.
So let me get this right.... You dont want him to use a 36x80 HCD layout but you want him to use a 24x72 because the HCD will need to run tighter radii ? 36 in wide will run wider radii then 24. I didnt even need a calculator for that...lol. 24 inch wide will make radii of about 9 3/4 if you allow for 2 inch crash zone on the edges. 36 wide will allow for at least 16 radii with 2 inch barriers on each side. the math just doest add up for a 24x60. JMO YMMV. And 80 inches is only 8 inches longer then 72...not even worth worrying about for moving around corners. You could stand a HCD on edge to go around a corner if the corner is too tight to go around lengthwise.
I can completely understand a modular RR with a turning loop module added with a larger radius, but my door layout features 19-20 inch radius curves on the lower line (I added extensions), and I can move my door layout up and down stairs...(no more difficult than moving a Queen size mattress and foundation) Unless one has a huge basement and/or warehouse, everything in planning a model railroad is a compromise...the door concept works well for me! http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...e-quot-Santa-Fe-quot-room&highlight=arbomambo a door layout presents limitations in vertical scenery (such as the girder bridge the author would like to duplicate), but an element of vertical scenery is possible with the use of foam layers glued on top of the door, but, again, "it is what it is", a great way to build a small layout fairly quickly and in a smaller space.. I'd be more concerned with the little fingers touching, grabbing, dropping, throwing...generally, (I have seen exceptions!) 5 year olds and N scale don't mix too well...it won't be the radius that will cause the bulk of derailments...the five year old 'Godzilla' will... When the grandkids visit...there's a serious N scale no-touch rule, and the locos and rolling stock are usually locked away (plenty of 'Thomas'-style trains for little hands to play with). Dad can work with the little one to teach proper handling, respect for property, etc...all kinds of Father/Son teaching-learning-bonding opportunities...another great benefit of this, and ANY hands-on hobby. I'm a huge fan of the KISS method here, especially for this kind of layout...it's not gonna be the 'end-all'...but still offers a good opportunity to hone skills in track-laying, scenery, etc... Do what you like!...a bridge, a tunnel, etc! I'd refer you to the recently bumped thread (64-65 pages, I think) from the young student with the AMAZING scenery and photgraphy vision AND skills to see what can be achieved on a door sized layout! Respectfully, Bruce
Before this gets out of hand into pro/anti HCD; pro/anti small radius, I believe the point Inkateer was making was to use several modules so the modeler could set up a larger layout i.e. with larger radius curves for better running. I admit that I love small layouts and HCDs but I think that using modules is an alternative that should be considered. Heck, I've even considered a modular layout using HCDs as the modules but then I have a walkout basement. However, the point of this is to help a fellow model railroader and only that person can determine their constraints and the ultimate solution they want to pursue. Qtipeus, both of these solutions have advantages and disadvantages - you have to figure out what's going to work best for you. Remember that down the line, as your constraints change, so can your approach to layout building. Very respectfully, Andy Tetsu Uma
As an HCD modeler (although, this time, the HCDs are mounted to shelf brackets), I've moved more doors around than the folks at Lowe's in the process of remodeling my home. Moving doors can be done, if done right. Plus, I support the cause of HCD layouts mainly for small layouts. With the right radius, one can run six-axle locomotives on an HCD layout. The fellow that models the Pennsy and even Conrail on his HCD is in the military, and uses HCDs for his layout- and it seems to have survived moves across the country well.
Interesting posts. To clarify, the moving of the HCD/layout will only be from one side of his room, on to his top bunk bed. Not through doors, upstairs, squeezing it an attic or crawl space, or anything else...LOL!! That said, I believe the HCD will be fine. Additionally, the radius is 15" for the outer loop and 13 45/64" on the inner passing siding, furthering my belief that the HCD 36X80 will be fine as it's the same track from the 4x8 which ran all our locos fine. Moving this forward, I'm attaching three new layout designs using the Kato Unitrack...it is easy...biggest thing is to get trains running quickly. As we know, 5yo's don't have huge attention spans. Please note, all three utilize the passing siding around a curve, and all three incorporate the river/bridge similar to nscaleaddicts that I posted previously. I really do like those to aspects. One plan also incorporates "daylighted" tunnel area, like Jim Reising's. I love the concept. but not sure it fits there? Look forward to your thoughts on these....thanks! Qtip/Chris
