I just read through the bazillion posts on the new MTL turnouts on the yahoo z group - blah, blah, blah. Lots of blabbering but no one has yet to post the definitive instructions, with pics, so those of us who a) like the MTL turnouts and b) don't want to wait for "new" updated MTL turnouts that accept the AZL SD70s and all rolling stock can fix our turnouts and put them to use. I personally love the fact that TRAINBOARD seems to lack the bickering and blabbering about these things and is a results oriented and more serious (and fun!) forum for us Z scalers. If someone can post the fix in this thread I, and many folks like me, would be VERY thankful. So, thanks in advance to the guy(s) who post detailed fix instructions and images for us.
Graves, First, there may be a lot of posts and some have found that a certain ONE piece of rolling stock or as many of us have found, the specific current SD70 (not the older C44, etc,) from AZL are having trouble running thru the turnout. The MTL turnouts run virtually every other piece of rolling stock from anyone and certainly meet the mass market from a design and priduction standoint. Just as with the Marklin turnouts (take their curved turnout or doubel-slip switch for example) that are always going to have a problem with certain cars and locos, it is up to each to decide what to either run on them or not to use. Changing the production part costs a lot of money is not going to happen, trust me, when only a specific model of loco has an issue. Most of use have regauged the wheel (as we have also done with the Marklin "Bumble Bee") to allow them to run thru these very well designed turnouts. I know this is a difficult issue for many that either do not want to be taking their loco apart or have the tool to do it or maybe even expect each and every piece of rolling stock or loco to run on every piece of track. Someone will come up with a service, pictures of how to regauge the SD70s wheels or else but I can gaurantee you that MTL is not going to "fix" the turnout that runs virtually everything we've thrown at it. Please hang in there. Help is on the way.
Jeff, I disagree in some points of your posting. I've four MTL Turnouts and not all works the same. Some Turnouts has more problems then others with the different Rolling Stock. Most Tenders on Steam Locomotives likes to derail, also some GP35 move a little bit sidewards when they pass the Turnout. A friend of mine in Germany has 8 Turnouts and he told me that his Conrail GP35 stalls and sometimes stops on some of his Turnouts. I think it's a problem of quality, are they made in China? On another note, of course you can fix this issue with least effort but thats not for everyone a easy job. I think if a manufacture comes out with a new product in the Year 2006 (almost 2007) we can expect a troublefree product. I know Märklin Turnouts had there problems too but this design is 30 Years old and still works. just my 2 Cent
you are jumping to conclusion :zip: whether things are junk or good quality has nothing to do with manufacturing location and all to do with management of the process. Chris
Chris why do you think the Brand "Made in Switzerland" or "Made in Germany" has this attention on the world market. Why do you think manfucatures let there High-Tech Pieces build in the above countrys where the cost is 3-5 times higher then in China? How can you explain that Turnouts from the first series has average deviation?
Jürg, on the MT packages it usually stand "made exlusively in the US". But alot of the Marklin and AZL are made in China. But even if China has good quality on it`s stuff, i prefer to buy US/Europe made stuff. Because i see the chinese market as a threat. Take my country for example. Almoust all of our production is moved to china and other 3 world countries. What are Norway going to do when the oil dissapears?? Just my 2 cents.
From examining MTL turnouts and hearing the reports, there are problems in manufacturing. MTL has acknowledged this. This shows up with left hand turnouts were the frog is higher than the adjacent rail head. This is causing locos to stall when they hit the higher rail of the frog. The second issue is design. The guards are too close to the rail on the curved portion of the turnout. When some locos and rolling stock with narrow gauged wheel sets run through, the flange wedges between the guard and the rail. Since there is no play, the inside flange must ride up over the frog. This is exactly what is happening with AZL locos which are gauged slightly different from MTL. Also, it is happening with some Marklin rolling stock and even a few MTL locos. So what is the solution? Solution one is to re-gauge wheel sets. Solution 2 is to file the turnouts to open the gap between the rail and the guard. Also filing the rail head on the frog will solve the first problem. I personally suggest modifying turnouts since this will allow for more play with any loco or car that may have different wheel gauge. I also agree. I like the attitude here better. Some of the comments on the forum were so bias and showed no respect to the manufacturers or Z community. I believe in frank and open discussion, but they should be honest. Some members only wanted to point a finger of blame and cause a rift or impose their own slighted view. This negativity hurts the hobby. If you were a newbie and these were the first posts you read, what would you think? As for quality, China and South Korea are very good, but mistakes happen. AZL products are made in South Korea by Ajin. They do a great job, but they are not perfect. AZL has looked at China and here in the US. Unfortunately, our first attempt at using a US supplier has been disappointing. As for MTL's turnouts, it is obvious that greater controls in the manufacturing are needed, but these bugs happen on first runs and they will be worked out as the product matures. Rob
We had a problem like this in nscale with the Atlas code55 turnouts. I would make sure the frog is correct before I took the file to it. If it's too tight, file away. If the frog is in gauge, gauge the wheels instead. It's always better to make changes consistent with nmra specs. Of course, if the frog is too high, file it level with the track. The turnouts look nice. I may pick up a pair soon.
Is there a NMRA gauge for Z scale? I use the MT coupler height gauge to adjust wheel sets and gauge rails.
there really is no NMRA standard for Z, so there can be no NMRA gauge :teeth: the only complete/official standard for Z so far is the European one, see: http://www.morop.org/en/normes/index.html Chris ps I thought you guys in US call it gage? like: mold/mould color/colour etc
My Conclusions! Last night I took apart one of my MTL Turnouts. I also removed the Frog assembly. It is attached to the plastic turnout frame with 2 small screws, held from the bottom, and is also glued to the plastic frame. I found a raised blob of dried glue on the end where the frog was raised. The photo below shows the area where I found the raised dried glue. I scraped off the blob of dried glue and re-assembled the Turnout. The frogs elevation dropped drastically. The diverging track rail is now level with the frog. The straight track rail of the frog, is about .15 mm high still. But, while looking down the rail, it appears that the rail is now the problem, not the frog. At the end of the rail, it appears to go downward at the end. Possibly from being sheered. I ran the GP35 thru the turnout with no noticeable change! I then ran my AZL C44-9's thru the turnouts. No change, they still jumped up on the guide rail of the frog. This morning I used my hobby knife to spread the distance between the wheels. Only about .10 mm to .25 mm. I ran the C44 back thru the turnout and the wheels ran thru the frog without jumping up on the guide rail of the frog. SUCCESS!!! Now I need to fix the other turnout I have. Will post more findings IF, I find anything different. Hobo Tim
I dunno, spell checker says "gauge" is wrong, I tell it to ignore. Looks like Tim did some simple investigating and fixed the turnout problem.
i used to have an Nn3 gauge, made like the NMRA gauge. don't know if they still make one, it was a while ago, but we might check with the Nn3 groups. dave f.
Wow, Tim! Thanks for figuring this one out. Sounds like a simple QC issue that should be able to be fixed with future runs (and eay enough for us to fix the ones that may have this problem that have already been bought). Randy
Tim looks like you found the problem! I had the height off with my left hand as well, but I filed mine down. I wish I had seen this first!
Thanks Tim, I just received mine today, one right and one left. The right is absolutely flawless, thanks MTL! The left seems the same as yours, rails uneven at both ends of the Frog. I took it apart and fixed the diverging track side but it looks like the [SIZE=-1]switch point pivot is low at the other end. When I have some more time to think it over I will attempt to raise it. Even with this though it is very functional. The tiny little manual switch tabs are the only thing I have problems with, maybe when I get the turnout attached they won't be so fiddly. [/SIZE]
