MTL / MARKLIN PASSENGER VISUAL COMPATIBILTY

Wellllllll, a close comparison on the Vista Dome you sent me, and the MTL's (ATSF name) I have are not world's apart, although there are some visual differences. But I think these can be overcome with some fancy paint work, decal placement, and obviously truck relocation.

I have the "observation/end of train car" by Marklin inbound and should be here in a week or so.

I will send some pics of the Marklin Vista Dome and the MTL units this evening very everyone to view and ponder.

 

OK a day late on the pics but not a dollar short.

So I pulled out two MTL ATSF cars and shot the following photos with the MARKLIN Vista Dome in the mix.

The one glaring difference between these cars is the fact that the side ribbing on the MTL units is either a decal or painted on. As for the MARKLIN unit, it is actual molded ribbing. So visually in that regards, there is a minor difference, but it’s not insurmountable.



Next is the comparison of the roofs. Not much of an issue here, and the cross brace lines are relatively close and acceptable.


Lastly, I’m throwing this picture in for the sake demonstrating the engineering that will need to take place in regards to moving the trucks about 5MM towards the end. That’ll simply be a matter of drilling a hole and using either a plastic washer or something else Between the trucks and the body. That doesn’t appear to be too tough.

Lastly, acquiring some decals that match the MTL lettering and numbering will then probably be a bigger challenge. I think paint matching will be very easy, most likely using Testors good ole enamel aluminum or silver, that I have in my possession. Hard to find stuff.

So I will leave it up to you dear readers. What is your opinion of how these cars match???

 

An interesting sidenote to the AT&SF cars-the 1:1 scale passenger cars were actually PAINTED with fake fluting on the sides, to match they're other passenger cars that actually had the side ribbing!

 

So in essence, by running the MTL (painted siding) with the MARKLIN (fluted siding), a "prototypical accuracy" has been achieved. Who'da thunk it.

Someday, I may have the funds and will break down and just buy the AZL set if it's still available. I'm amazed MTL never went further with this series.

 

Yup!

 

They're coming out with more repaints on the passenger cars, so be on the lookout. Ya' never know. The AZL set is really nice!

 

Lance,
The rivet counter in me says add a strip along the bottom to match the side height of the MTL. I'd also put in the curved portion that hangs down with the stirrup.
But I always make more work for myself, the may be the best approach.

Scott

 

Scott,
The stirrup already crossed my mind too. I think adding them is a must.

Plus, adding additional strip material to both the ends, and the lower sides to gain the proper dimensions may be viable as well. Styrene plastic properly cut could do the trick.

As for bending the stirrups, please craft up one of your “world famous jigs” (of some sort) so that I can bend them properly to scale.

 

So I came in late to! I guess I need to go back and read all the post to see what is going on here since I have been out for a while! SO on the left is a AZL and on the right is a MTL
! I don't have any of the Marklin to compare them to these. Both dome cars here! Wow! I guess I should open these more often since I just bought them a while back ! I open the AZL dome care from the plastic box then started to remove the plastic sheet wraped around it and both trucks fell off WOW no pins I was glade I had a second one with the same number!

 

I have this one as proff that MTL did do a Dome car UP! Came in a set with a F7 A&B united dated 2009! MTL-551-00-010 SOrry these were dome cars! Not Observations/ end of train cars!

 

Now AZL did a observation car in their Southern Crescent 7 car set! here are all the cars in that one set! center bottom! Patrick henry Southern Observation car!

 

Howdy Robert:

I've owned 400+ passenger cars of all 3 brands. Had to join again because I've lost my old email address.

The Marklin cars are shorter in height to match the F7 diesel loco. What they did ...is ground down the edges of the removable roofs.

I had new roofs made of the correct crown height and filled in the blank area on the car ends Then after changing the trucks/truck position and lessening the inward curve of the lower body they closely matched the AZL profile. MTL passenger bodies ride a tad high over the trucks but can be modified lower. They all then match reasonably well. This was 10 years ago.

Now AZL has fluted side and I'm not messing with modifications. Generally just collecting the originals.

Rory Blake

 

Howdy Rory,
So you say you’ve had or “have” 400 passenger units? If you have 400 units, no wonder I can’t find any more ATSF cars

I am very much in agreement with you, though, the AZL units are phenomenal, but not in my budget at this time. I like everybody else though and thoroughly disappointed that MTL didn’t further their offerings on the passenger cars.

 

Well Rory’s posts above re-lit the fire under my hobby desk chair to start working again on this MARKLIN /MTL passenger consist compatibility challenge. Add to that this little project was taking up more space on my hobby desk than it deserved so what better way to get it off the desk than to just complete it.

And I am hot and heavy into using my 3-D printer, so what a better time to design and print the MTL truck and coupler adapters for the MARKLIN cars.

It literally took me six design iterations of these adapters to get them exactly where I needed them and to be compatible with other MARKLIN passenger cars just in case. Everyone on this forum knows the process is more complex than it looks. Obviously it’s not a matter of just drilling/relocating a hole in the bottom of the chassis and installing the trucks.

To start with. I had to disassemble the MARKLIN cars, which also involved removing the glass inserts that represent the windows. This is somewhat of a daunting task and intimidating that you do not break them.

Here’s a quick shot of the underside of the MARKLIN observation car and Vista Dome car, showing the differences in length and bolster pin locations.

Here’s where the need for the adapter comes to play, because the proper location for the MTL truck is such that it lands right in line with edge of the raised pivot point on the MARKLIN car.

The below pic shows my first attempt at a 3-D printed adapter. Multiple changes were needed.

Here’s the final adapter (6th attempt).


Lastly, positioning of the truck and fluidity of movement are really good.

 

Now comes that “pesky” Observation car….. The issue was not so much at the front mount point, but at the back. If you look at historical pictures of these observation cars, you will see that they did actually have a coupler mounted. Most likely just for moving around the yard. However, this appears to be set further back into the body of the car.

The MTL truck assy obviously being very long is going to need to be modified.




You’ll also noted in one of the above pics. I had to modify the adapter and shorten it too. This was necessary as I am going to mount the coupler to the body. Most likely I’ll just glue it in place.

Next, it was necessary to modify the truck even further, so that it would swing with plenty of room on turns and not come into contact with the coupler.


So far, so good…..

 

To verify height and appearance, I loose installed the roofs for these photos.




A couple of observations from the photos is that the gap between the cars due to the coupler lengths and location are a bit wide, but something I can live with. Also, as Scott noted in a previous post, some additional material including stirrups could be added to the lower side of the MARKLIN cars for a more compatible appearance to the MTL units, but I have decided to forego this. From a visual standpoint on layout, one usually views rolling stock at a 45 degree angle with the naked eye, and visually these look just fine with that in mind.

Last but not least here’s our pesky little observation car, although without the coupler installed. I will install that after the car has been painted. Which will be the next installment in this action packed series……

 

Lance,
Wow, laser cutting and 3D printing! Giving Rob some competition?
Very nice work and great SBS!
Are you going to make the adapters available?
Looking forward to the next installment.


Scott

 

Thanks Scott, but nobody can compete with the “Great One”….Rob Ray.

YEP, will make these available, along with several other items I have printed. Just trying to find the time to get everything posted on eBay.

 

Thanks, Lance: Good Job! I'll buy some of those!

BTW: The Marklin Amtrak cars are based on the 1948 Santa Fe Pullman cars. I had one. The Marklin observation car looks just as good if you flip the end truck with the coupler facing underneath the car body.