Milwaukee Road in the 21st Century

JKD Jul 11, 2007

  1. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    Probably just Kato pantographs... I'm not a rivet counter.

    I had heard that story about the offer from GE, but some people just treat it as being an urban legend. If it is true, then how did the Milwaukee's board not get charged with criminal misconduct for not accepting the offer from GE?

    At least I know it's a plausible idea, but if you've ever seen a U50B, you have to admit, there were a little ugly, :eek:hboy:.
     
  2. badlandnp

    badlandnp TrainBoard Member

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    The only thing I heard about the MILW management after the BN arrived on the scene was that the former management team of the CB&Q went over to the MILW. If this is true, it would have put the new BN inside MILW ! ! Remember the Q became part of the BN. Just something I heard from an author of a book about the failure of the MILW. It is interesting because the only section of the pacific extension that was profitable was the electrified section!

    BTW- Just love the paint schemes you have come up with! If you really want a good education on the MILW, go to Harlowtol, MT and visit the MILW museum and depot/roundhouse there. Some of the old heads are there and can supply you with lots of info!!!
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    For some information about the MILW and what really happened: http://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/

    This site is owned by a former MILW attorney. Atop this, he has other degrees and university educator's credentials. He grew up in a Lines West (electric substation) family. Has written extensively on the topic, was active in the BN merger fight, etc, etc. He actually possesses the original documentation to support his points, unlike brainless types who want to argue with their unsupportable personal opinions as foolishly attempted counterpoints.
     
  4. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, they really aren't my designs... I'm still working on my own 'modern' logos and paint scheme, based on similar things Jeff King has showed me.

    The next fantasy units I'm getting are two SD45s painted in the Hiawatha logo scheme. I don't know if any of the SD45s ever made in into that scheme, but I will be claiming mine are some that the Milwaukee bought later on, that had been upgraded to SD45-2 standards, but kept the original carbodies, similar to things that appeared on MRL. I also have an MRL SD45 to use them on run-through trains.

    Other fantasy locos waiting to be done are a small fleet of Baldwin sharks, and of course all the pretend electrics.
     
  5. Joe Valerio

    Joe Valerio New Member

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    You hit my sweet spot with this post! Just before Overland brought in the Little Joes I got the itch to do exactly what you're suggesting. I made masters for 3 electric loco types utilizing CC U50 cabs and CC turbine cabs and B ends with strip styrene used a "welded" sides. One type fit the Atlas Trainmaster chassis, one fit the Atlas c628/630, and one fit the CC U50/turbine. I unfortunately made every mistake in the book for both making masters and molds. None of the masters or molds survived, but I did get enough resin shells to satisfy my needs.
     
  6. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    Joe how about some photos of the result? I'd like to see how they turned out!
     
  7. Joe Valerio

    Joe Valerio New Member

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    As soon as I figure out how open a Photobucket account and link pictures I will post pix of my projects.
     
  8. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    Or you can upload them to RailImages here on the TrainBoard family of sites. Free!
     
  9. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    I would love to see them, too.

    Right now, I am working on a fantasy electric made from two Erie-built loco shells spliced together and riding on a GG1 chassis. Hopefully I can make my splices nice and clean.

    I also want to do the idea of a GE U50 made into an electric. Even though U50s are pretty ugly: we could call them E50s instead.

    Also, someone on shapeways just released shells for the Virginian style EL2B electrics, which could potentially be mounted on Con-Cor U50 or turbine chassis. They are really the same ere as the Little Joes, but it would also be fun to paint some in a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, too.
     
  10. Joe Valerio

    Joe Valerio New Member

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    Testing image upload

    This is an early effort at the "next generation" Milw electrics. This was photographed in 2006 with the ungainly N-Cat pans, and before I decided to to change things up a bit on the top. I am replacing the pans with Kato pans; that necessitated making a new pan mount. I decided to replace the rear pan with the Atlas SD24 4-tank cluster of air tanks. I will post updated pix when I get smart enough to post pix without help.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2015
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  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Nice. Really nice! Those colors look great. Would have been wonderful to see in reality.
     
  12. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    Joe, you did a great job on the modern electrics. The only way to make them more modern is to use ES44AC trucks...
     
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  13. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    Those are incredible! I agree the colours look great. I'd love to have a set of those. I wonder if they would run with my SD90Mac.

    I'm curious what rationale a 'modern' Milwaukee Road would find for running high-horsepower diesels and electrics together, especially in this age of AC diesel locomotives.

    Are those some of your custom cast shells? What are you using for powered chassis?
     
  14. Joe Valerio

    Joe Valerio New Member

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    The loco in the photo is based on the Atlas C628/630 chassis. In my fantasy world it is class EF8. I also made a class EF6 based on the Atlas FM Trainmaster. For class EF7 I took a chance on the ConCor U50/turbine chassis(which can be made to run almost as well as the Atlas and Kato units: emphasis on "almost"). Use of the CC U50 chassis required the most labor as the top "rib" had to be reduced by approx. .060". The Trainmaster chassis required slight chamfering of the frame halves at the front, but is otherwise close to a drop-in. The C628/630 chassis is a straight drop-in but needs end stabilizer/coupler mounting pieces.
     
  15. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    What did you use to make those bodies for them, though? It looks like a U50 cab.

    Now we just need pics of them pulling a train.
     
  16. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    In addition to sending Autoracks and Boeing planes over Snoqualmie Pass, I recently stumbled across a series of blog articles about the increased freight traffic on BNSF in eastern Washington and in the Seattle region, notably because of trains carrying oil bound for new refineries in the Ferndale, WA, region.

    The series title "The Wrong Side of the Tracks" details all of the grade crossings and what types of signalling and protection they have and how much traffic crosses both road and rail. The repeated mantra is how "Streets will close for hours daily as coal and oil rolls by..."

    http://daily.sightline.org/blog_series/wrong-side-of-the-tracks/

    Looking at the maps, showing how the trains will be routed from Idaho, through Spokane, down BNSF to Pasco, and then through the Columbia gorge, and then back up through Seattle to northwestern Washington, it almost makes one wonder, why they wouldn't spend a few billion to upgrade and relay track on the Milwaukee Road from at least where BNSF crosses the former MILW mainline at Lind, WA. and over the Columbia at Beverly and then over Snoqualmie Pass to Renton.

    At the very least, it would be a bit of a more direct routing: the only big problem in railroading terms would be the grade over the Saddle Mountains, but the approach to Snoqualmie Pass on the east side would be easy for loaded oil trains, and even empty trains would have an easy time returning back over the pass. As an alternative, significant amounts of traffic could be diverted from other railroads in the region, using Snoqualmie Pass, thus opening up Capacity on Stevens Pass to allow the oil traffic to move north of Seattle.

    In the real world, of course, no one in Maple Valley would want dozens of trains a day running through their backyards, and there would still be the problem of getting trains through the Seattle urban areas.
     
  17. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Maple Valley is a goner. No way to get through there ever again. Hoever, the Ravensdale Cut-Off solves this. The engineering was done twenty or so years ago, if not more. It should be in their files, easily pulled out and moved ahead. At least to a certain extent. Stampede is grossly underutilized. So there'd be no real troubles with the train volume you visualize, merging into traffic via that route.
     
  18. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    I guess I forgot about the title of this thread. If the railroad was still around, we wouldn't have to worry about rebuilding the section through Maple Valley, because it would still be in place, and there would already be dozens of trains rolling through backyards.

    I could find any info on the Ravensdale Cut-Off, but it probably would also be possible to rebuild the old connection from Cedar Falls to Monroe, to divert traffic around the Seattle urban areas.

    Also, from what I have read and heard, isn't it true that Stampede pass would really need a new tunnel to be able to handle heavier traffic, today?
     
  19. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Not many seemed to have heard about the engineering work BN did on this project. But management at that time nixed moving ahead. Instead scrapping Snoqualmie Pass for the short term capital gain, long, long term loss. Find Ravensdale in an aerial view. Follow the tangent main track eastward, to where it starts curving right. Instead of making that turn, project the main track straight across to the old MILW r-o-w and you will have it very close.

    Yes. The tunnel does not have clearance for double stacks, auto racks, etc. In fact, it is so tight that NP had a special sized rotary plow for that Pass. Which is now preserved at the Northwest Railway Museum. It also restricted use of their larger Z class steam, which from what Jim Frederickson told me any slight rocking motion of those and they'd actually scrape the tunnel sides.
     
  20. PGE-N°2

    PGE-N°2 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, I did take a look at it on a map, and it looked like a logical solution to build a connection there. Even if the Milwaukee haldn't been shut down, having an interchange point there would have helped traffic flow more smoothly around the Tacoma area. Electing not to do that seems to be as ridiculous a decision as the complete embargo of the Pacific Extension in the first place.

    I was also following the old right-of-way over Snoqualmie Pass on aeriel photos, trying to find the major features. I was actually surprised at how far down the pass the major bridges actually were, because I had imagined them being much higher up on the pass. One of them was only just a few miles out from Cedar Falls, barely off the start of the grade.

    Slightly off topic, the description of the Z Class scraping the tunnel sides reminded me of the story of when one of Canadian Pacifc's legendary Selkirk engines stalled inside the Connaught Tunnel and the crew in the cab never noticed until the conductor opened the cab door and stepped inside to find out what was going on. They had succeeded in grinding down the rails quite a bit and, afterwards, the crews on Selkirk locomotives would carry brooms in the cab so that they could reach out the window and touch the tunnel wall to gauge if they were still moving forward.
     

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