What wheel arrangements on steamers were suited for what type of work? I'm curious as to how railroads decided which type of loco to purchase for passenger and freight service(or did they buy steamers for multiple purpose?). Also, was there a significant difference in what operated on level versus mountainous terrain? I've noticed a lot of nice steam coming available in HO scale. I'm trying to decide what wheel arrangements are worth sinking money into. I don't want one of everything! (just yet). I'm looking at the 1920s to the mid 1940s. Thanks Chris McDaniel "Look Ahead, Look South"
Wow, Chris, that's a monster subject! Every railroad had it's own philosophies and ideas about what locomotives they needed for freight. A lot of their planning had to do with the terrain that they had to tackle. Up until the 1920's, eight wheel engines were the main freight guys, 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s, while passenger engines had higher drivers and I guess the 4-6-2 Pacific was probably the most prolific. In the 20s, Superpower was born and a lot of developments in steam took place as a result. Lima Locomotive works led the parade with their 2-8-4, which became known as a Berkshire because that's where it was evaluated, by the Boston and Albany in the Berkshire Mountains of Massachusetts. Parent Company New York Central bought more Mountain, or Mohawk as they called them, 4-8-2s, as their "Water Level Route" was relatively flat. NYC and the Milwaukee road also developed the 4-6-4 Hudson or Baltic for Passenger service as a natural follow-on to the Pacific. Then there were the articulateds, built by coal roads and others that had mountains to challenge. Got to run, but will come back and comment more later.
Back again. The 20s also saw the first 4-8-4s, which as you know came in all shapes and sizes and were certainly multi-purpose, freight and passenger service. Again the different roads had different ideas. NYC was one of the last to build 4-8-4s and the physical size limitations caused by tunnels, etc resulted in a long, low engine as opposed to say Santa Fe's huge 2900 series 4-8-4s. The innovations in steam power by the 1940's were such that any engines built then were terrific performers. The size of drivers was probably more significant than the wheel arrangements in later years. N&W built fabulous class J 4-8-4s with 70 inch drivers, due to their mountainous terrain. The flatlanders had 80 inch drivers on theirs. Coal drags and other hill climbs resulted in some super articulated engines built by B&O, C&O, N&W, the Virginian, UP, SP, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, etc, etc. 4-6-6-4s, 2-8-8-4s, 2-6-6-6s, and 4-8-8-4s got the most notariety. All of these guys were heavy and had great tractive force. Whew, this is exhausting. What else can I tell you?
Late 30's early 40's started the mark of super power steam. Articulateds, and or true mallet type (complex design instead of simple exspanion articulateds) 2-6-6-0's, 2-6-6-2's, 2-6-6-4's, and the best of the (six) coupled articulateds the 4-6-6-4's. Then you had the (eight) coupled articulateds, 2-8-8-0's, 2-8-8-2's, 2-8-8-4's, and the monsters of poer in a purest form 4-8-8-4's and the 2-6-6-6's... These were all brought to history in the 40's I believe..... Guys, anything I missed in the articulateds please contribute and correct if needed...
Hey thanks! This helps out a lot. I really hadn't paid much attention to the steam era - modeling in N and growing up with Southern diesels. However, HO steam has come a long way. I'm jumping up to HO -- now I have to pick a road, freelance, or stay with the Southern. Basically, I'm starting from scratch with my knowledge of steam. I'm going to pick up a few books to learn a bit more about how they operated and give me some more ideas about detailing any models I get. The super power discussion helps too. I was curious if 0-6-0s operated at the same time as 2-8-8-2s and others. I probably should look more at 0-8-0s for switching. But like you've said everything was up to the style of the railroads. Gotta go! Thanks again. Chris McDaniel
Chris, there were 0-4-0 switchers both with and without tenders operating up to the end of steam. Switch engines had very small drivers for slow use in yards. Freight engines used medium sized drivers for torque to start and pull heavy tonnage up grades. Passenger engines were the race horses with large drivers for high speed, often exceeding 100 miles an hour at sustained speed too! "Old Maude" was the first Mallet in America. She was an 0-6-6-0 compound type which was invented by a Frenchman that designed the front set of drivers to swivel under the boiler, while the rear set remained fastened solid to the boiler and carried a little more of the boiler's weight. They were all called "Malleys" since that was how his name in French sounds. He designed the engines to use the full steam pressure directly into the rear engine first (cylinders, rods, and drivers were an engine), the exhaust from the rear cylinders drove the front cylinders then exhausted up the smoke stack. Steam expands so this type of engine had huge front cylinders, some over three feet in diameter. I think the largest was 44". Technically, an engine that uses high pressure steam in the rear cylinders and low pressure in the front is a Mallet, while the engines that use high pressure steam in both front and rear, are Articulateds. The Mallets were powerful but slow, Articulateds were powerful and fast, often cruising above 70 miles an hour pulling over 10,000 tons of freight. One noted for that was "The Salad Bowl Express" that ran from California to New York markets with fresh produce! The super engines, Articulateds spoken of, were designed to use full pressure steam in both the front and rear cylinders, which allowed much faster running. It was a thrill to watch one of these monsters start up a train a couple of miles long! Often the front drivers would slip and spin trying to pull 10,000 or more tons of dead weight, but they did it. Now days, you have to have a whole box full of diesel engines to do the same job one big articulated did alone. Besides the big steam giants could flatten my pennys to tin foil! A 4-8-8-4 flattened a dime for me! Now that was a real prize 60 years ago! [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: watash ]</p>
Watash, The N&W 2-8-8-2's were in fact compounds the entire steam era! They never shoped them to simple articulateds! However the B&O's EL's 2-8-8-0's were outshoped as compounds and then latter in year were shoped again and made into simple articulateds! The easiest way to tell a compound (Mallet pronounced Malley) was buy the size of its front set of cylinders (pistons) and the exhaust stack! The compound (Mallet types) had single stacks while the simple articulateds had 2 side by side stacks! Look at a Union Pacific Big Boy (4-8-8-4) and a Norfolk & Western Y6b (2-8-8-2)! The Big Boy will have 2 stacks side by side and the Y6b will have one stack! The Big Boy is simple articulated and the Y6b is a compound.... The Y6b (2-8-8-2 used the steam twice as Watash has said. The boiler sent steam preasure to the rear set of pistons first and the exhaust was then sent to the low preasure cylinders in the front and then complete expelled to the exhaust... The Big Boy sent steam preasure to all 4 cylinders at once and expelled the exhaust out on 2 stacks... One stack for the rear set of cylinders and one stack for the front set of cylinders.. A articulated or mallet was like 2 steamer's under one boiler. With each one having 2 engines. Front and rear. In the mallet types the thing was power not speed! They had starting charteristics that the engineers wasn't to fond of. To start out that 10,000 tons of frieght, the rear set of engines had to slip a bit till the front set got steam preasure... Which was hard on the rail and also the wheels... But it did start out the tonage and hold its own un assisted....The articulateds were simple steam engines were all 4 cylinders got steam preasure at once... No slipping. And being so that changed the power and speed virtue. not only did they have power but also speed and then it went on to conclude to putting larger wheels on the simple articulateds. This is when "High Speed Frieght Service" came about.... Where today it takes 3 diesel in the front and 3 on the rear to move a train of the same size where it took one of those articulated steamers! The big thing with steam was the fact of fuel. I heat my home with coal, forsed hot air, I burn 5 to 6 tons of coal a winter. The steamers used 30 tons in one day! Very uneconomical, thats why they went to diesels.... But in the process had to give up the power for fuel economy. And need more diesels to do the same job... [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
Don't forget the 0-10-10-0 beasts that worked the two hump yards of the Richmond, Fredericksburg, and Potomoc at "Pot" Yard in Alexandria, VA until 1950(+/-). I don't have details at the moment, but I think they had very small drivers (48"?). They were very slow, but were so powerful that they could push a cuts of hundred(+) cars up the arrival and departure humps.
Hey all, This is good info (something I didn't know before), particularly the driver diameters and the super engines. Now I know I have to get my hands on some good steam reference books! Just two more questions. 1) Was a mallet or articulated more economical than simply double-heading some 2-8-2s or larger locomotives? 2) Did steamers use treated water to help reduce corrosion? Steam power plants use treated water, but my guess would be that steam locomotives did not. If they did I'd assume the treatment solution was provided on board the locomotive rather than it being applied at the water source (trackside tank/tower). Thanks Chris McDaniel
Chris, John and I probably love the steamers more than other members here, so together we can pretty well cover them, but Hank came up with a goody also. There were some BIGemgines made! Here is a Virginnian 2-10-10-2 road engine, from the Robert Walker Collection to illustrate the double 10 setup; Santa Fe made one also. The big switchers were just as powerful, but did not need the pilot or trailing trucks to guide the drivers on curves at high speed. Engines with this long a wheel base, even though the front five pair of drivers would swivel, still would not negotiate a #4 switch (turnout in the model world), so a lot of space was needed for the #8 and #10 switches required. Most yards used 0-4-0, 0-6-0, and 0-8-0 sizes, but a few had 0-10-0's and like Hank said, there were some really HUGE switchers in really heavyily trafficed yards. This is America's first Mallet; "Old Maude", made for the B&O, an 0-6-6-0. She is a compound, so do notice the rear cylinders are small and have round piston type valves, while the front cylinders are quite a bit larger and have big flat slide valves. John mentioned the hard starting of a compound. The exhaust was also "funny" sounding. At the first few turns of the drivers, the high pressure piston valve would open and sound like PISHOOOOOoooo, then a front slide valve would open up and sound like PFFOOOOWAAPFT, and both were ungodly LOUD if you were standing close by! Keep in mind you would hear an exhaust report four times for every time a driver rolled one revolution, two pushing, and two pulling toward the cylinders. Note the simplicity of Old Maude's boiler above, then look at all the gingerbread details on the RF&P 2-8-8-2 below. This RF&P engine was built for the C&O originally, but notice it is a simple articulated having both front and rear cylinders having the same diameter, and both having piston type valves. When my dad built his models of an engine like this, he completed one in the same year he started, working nights after his day job. When I made them, it took me a year and a half when I was in my 20's to do one from sheet brass and wire. As time passed and we accumulated more and more molds to cast the brass or lead details it speeded up a bit, but it still took the better part of a year to complete one with this much detail on it, including the tender, and we were both tool and die machinists. Today, you could make a good stab at one of these by "kit-bashing" parts from existing plastic models available, so don't let a steam engine scare you off making whatever you want like John and I do. The impressive thing about the articulated engines, is the swiveling front set of drivers. It is a scarey feeling to watch one coming toward you through a switch or curve. Notice how far the front drivers have swung off to the left side, while the boiler is still coming straight at you! This one was at Wheeling, West Virginnia backing onto the turntable at the roundhouse there. [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: watash ]</p>
Watash ole buddy agreed on the love of steam.. For steam's sake its my middle name! HA! I'll slso post a few HUGH steamers as well! I'll go to my online source for pictures that i'm a regular too! I'll also post some great modeling work that i've done on scale models of these hugh steamers! Which happens to be my favorites wether articulated or mallet type I like them more then the rigid frame steamers...My favorite as you will notice my screen name.. "EM-1" that preticular loco was a "Yellowstone" 2-8-8-4. My all time favorite goes to the #7600 for the B&O Which is my favorite Railroad... Be back with pictures!
Ok heres a picture of a B&O EL-5 (2-8-8-0) which was stronger in traction effort then B&O's EM-1's, you can compare the 2 for yourself... By the way the EL-5 below is in simple articulated form. It was originally a compound mallet type when outshoped by Baldwin! And heres a real good picture of a B&O EM-1 "Yellowstone" to compare with the EL-5 above! [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
And speaking of steam switchers.... I got the biggest and heaviest non articulated steam switcher in America being Watash has the first mallet articulated steam loco in America I'll post this one.... Its a B&O 0-10-0... It was built by the erecting shop of the B&O from a 2-10-2 "Santa Fe" type loco. [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
Now for pictures to compare the difference between a compound mallet type and a simple articulated type.... I have a original design B&O EL-4 (2-8-8-0) as it was a compound Mallet. Notice the front set of cylinders compared to the rear cylinders. Also note the smoke stack... It has larger front cylinders compared to the rear cylinders. They are smaller in size. Hence, the rear cylinder are the high preasure cylinders, which got steam preasure first, then the front larger low preasure cylinders which got steam preasure from the exhaust from the rear set of cylinders... Then look at the picture below, compare the 2 loco's. You have a Mallet type above. This picture below is a simple articulated. Its a B&O EL-5 (2-8-8-0). It has same size cylinders (all 4) and all 4 got steam preasure at the same time and all 4 exhausted in its own stack. Being 2 sets of high preasure cylinders each with their own exhaust stack. Called for 2 smoke stacks. This is the simplest way to determine the 2 seperate steam loco's apart by the stack and the size of their cylinders. Both these loco's are of B&O/Baldwin design. One is a true Mallet type and the other is a simple articulated. Both are of the same class "EL", and type "2-8-8-0", but in reality are very different in preformance... A true Mallet design (used the steam twice), and simple articulated. (used the steam once to all four cylinders). I hope the pictures help on the comparison of the two type loco's... ENJOY! [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
Now to post pictures of the true monsters of a class all on their own! The most powerfull! The first one below is the C&O "Allegheny" a simple articulated 2-6-6-6... And the picture below is the another monster! The Union Pacific "Big Boy" another simple articulatedv 4-8-8-4... And theirs one more to come... This next one may boggle the mind! HA! This one is a Erie loco, a 2-8-8-8-2. It's a simple articulated, but not a Mallet or a regular articulated they were called "Triplexes" 3 sets of engines! One under the tender. They were also built by Baldwin and 3 of these were ever built. One of which was a 2-8-8-8-4 which was so heavy it had collapsed a bridge on their mainline and was then taken out of service for this reason. Their steam compression and volocity was very poor they weren't very well steaming steamers. They failed to get the same amount of steam preasure the the rear set of cylinders under the cab as the front 2 sets. The boilers couldn't produce enough presure for all 6 cylinders. It was called the "Matt Shay" [ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
Chris, Sorry there fella it took me awhile to find the site this picture was on.... Its a "Triple Header" by the B&O. Tree EM-1's (Yellowstones 2-8-8-4's) in a row....345,000 pounds of tractive effort! ENJOY! Ratz! It won't let me post it nor give a link to view it! So I have to omitt that picture. [ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>
