Hi folks, I'm in the process of reworking my track plan in XTrackCAD. While I'm learning to navigate that program, I'm thinking about features that I'd like to include on my 19th century N scale Western layout, like a sawmill. I've read in a few places about using hidden staging in a tunnel or behind view blocks to create an illusion of loaded open top cars entering (or leaving) a facility and empties going the other way. What are your thoughts on this? Is it feasible? Too gimmicky? Should I just remove the loads manually? What are some other methods to simulate this effect, when attempting operations? Please, excuse this if this subject has been covered before. I tried "search" but wasn't able to find a previous thread that discussed this issue directly.
Exactly what you suggest for hidden staging has indeed been used, many times. Although it seems like coal gets this treatment most often, you can likely do it for many other commodities. I'd say go ahead and play with the idea. It may be just what you need.
A good example of Loads In/Empties Out is the layout in Modeling the Clinchfield Railroad in N Scale. Gary
Here is a minimalist approach to loads in empties out I designed, on a layout just slightly bigger than the old 2 x 4. Lots of "double duty" use of tracks here. A double-ended siding at top can be a passing siding, or a staging spot to hold one train while another runs. On the right side, where a dead-end parallel/concentric spur is added, three tracks close side-by-side give somewhat the impression of a "yard." I think loads out/empties in are useful where there are long cuts of cars (or entire trains) not easy to load and unload. However, I always figured log bunker cars are easy to load and unload by finger, even if there are half a dozen or so to handle. Similarly, pre-fitted pulpwood loads slip in and out of rack cars between sessions. I made sulphur gondolas so I could pull out the loads easy with a little hook device. I LIKE having a few "real" loads and seeing them change. (Your smileage may differ, depending on age and model.) I used a container to pour loose live gravel loads into gravel gondolas and hoppers... and tumped the car contents back into the container when delivered, to have an "empty," but I admit this would be a hassle if handling more than a couple per session.
Thanks for the replies. Especially Ken's track plan. I'm looking at running ten car trains made up of short oldtimer equipment. I'm considering using some 30' N scale flatcars that I saw on Shapeways. IIRC the Clinchfield layout used a helix for hidden trackage to allow the mine to be on a higher elevation than the power plant. Ken's trackplan also contains a curve on the hidden track. Is it reliable to use a curve? Should I keep the hidden tracks accessible from behind or underneath? Also, if the hidden track is on an incline what keeps the cars from sliding out into the open at the bottom industry? What do you think is the maximum practical length for the hidden tracks. What I am considering is an arrangement where the sawmill is on the layout off a branch line from the main yard. the log loads enter and the empty flatcars exit the mill on tracks that lead trough a tunnel along the back of the layout against the wall, exiting in staging which represents off-layout logging camps. Staging is to be a reverse loop that also feeds the mainline. I expect two hidden tracks - one inbound the other outbound. I look forward to more suggestions.
You could have troubles on a curve, with coupling or uncoupling. Otherwise, there should be no reason for worries.
Hmm... So, when conducting operations, is it best to have the engine back a cut of loaded cars into the facility, uncouple and set them out on the hidden track, then move to the adjacent track and pick-up a cut of empty cars of the other hidden track? Or is it better to run entire trains through the facility nose first - to emerge from the paired facility at the other end?
You can do it either way. Both are proven methods. Which ever version provides you with the most enjoyment.
Another issue seems to be length. I imagine that reliability drops the longer the hidden portion of track is. OTOH, the longer the track between industries then the greater the visual effect of the illusion. I suppose that the access to hidden trackage from behind or below would mitigate the reliability issue somewhat? It must be difficult to line up the couplers out of sight. I'm trying to talk myself into using this, as the visual effect could be striking, especially if several trains arrive/depart per session. Two trains could appear to be a dozen. The down side might be high maintenance and the fiddly nature of mismatched couplers and derailments in the dark, especially if it is several train lengths long, although that could just be the price to pay for any significant length of tunnel.
My answer to the reliability, coupling etc issues: a short length of hidden track inside/between paired industries, and a length of track OUTSIDE the entrance to hidden connection. The cut of traded cars extends to open track on BOTH ends of the hidden connection. All coupling/ uncoupling takes place in the open. As for cars appearing coming out into the open on the "other end" of the connection with a no visible loco? That is what would often be seen at a mine loader, dump track etc. where loco is on the other end of a string of cars. Nothing unusual here.
Thanks, this is a very helpful discussion. I found another, older thread on the loads/empties dilemma, but the consensus seemed to be to either change out the cars or the loads themselves manually. http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?61877-Operations-Loads-amp-Empties Most track plans that I've seen with mines or logging do not contain what Al Westerfield called an "elegant back door", but instead rely upon 0-5-0 manipulation, either changing out loads or entire cars. If I go this route, the hidden track will likely be in a tunnel against the wall at the back of the layout. I intend to have the table on wheels to ease access to those tracks incase of emergencies. The two industries will likely be at opposite ends of a 14' table. Perhaps I can use a cut or trough for part of the length to increase reliability and access. I'll need to experiment with this.
