Layout plans -- Feedback Requested

I am planning on constructing an N scale layout beginning in January, 2002. I have put a plan together and am ready to take the final step -- expose the plans for comment. Sort of like baring one's soul -- let the games begin.

The plan can be found at http://photos.yahoo.com/poozinsc2000

First, a few notes about the layout...

1. The room is about 11'8" by 11'8". It is a former screen porch that my wife granted to me in order to get my stuff out of the dining room. The nice thing was that I could build it to my spec. The windows are 12" transoms 6 feet off the floor. It allows nice even, natural light all the way around. Interior lighting comes from 9 fisheye lights spaced evenly around the room. The drawback, a double door to the living room and an exterior door on one wall.

2. I'm unsure how to post this, so I'm putting my notes in this posting. The letters refer to letters I've put on the plans.

3. The layout has a loop (about 60 feet of track) and a branch. The branch is located in the corner of the room (I) and is reachable across a removable bridge (H). H is directly in front of the exterior door.

4. The loop will cross above the branch line in the D area. I plan on having a high trestle at K with the benchwork profile deeply cut to emphasize the gorge. A coal mine will reside at E.

5. I'm planning a town at D. I'm not sold on the switching area at B, but I think it will work. Any advice is welcome here.

6. I've always wanted a yard, and I think this one fits the bill. Small, yet serviceable. This is John Armstrong's small division yard from his Realistic Operation book. I laid it out and flipped it.

7. Trackage from C to around D will be hidden. I'm a little curious how I'm going to hide the track in the area around B since the layout is so narrow right there.

8. Letter J is in front of the double doors to the living room.

9. Layout height will be around 52 inches. I'm 6'3", so this works well for me. My workbench is located under the yard area. Aisleways (what there is of them) are only 2 feet, but considering the size and space, I'm willing to accept this. Benchwork will be designed using Lynn Westcott's book as a guide. I've already purchased it and have gotten some good ideas from it.

10. I'm going to eventually go to DCC. The debate currently keeping me awake at night is whether to wire for pure DCC initially and limiting operation, or pay the price in time and money and wire for traditional cab control. The thought of wiring a yard panel just doesn't appeal to me. In addition, as my son just mentioned, "It's annoying, you have to reach over and switch this one and change that one..."

11. Switch control will be manual, but I haven't decided on a final solution.

12. If I did this right -- the image will appear here-->

It is in the Layout album.

Well, long winded, but a lot to describe.

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to your comments.

Chris

[ 07 July 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]

[ 08 July 2001: Message edited by: poozinsc ]

 

Chris,
We're moving into a new house and my wife designated the screen porch as the train room before I could even ask her! As for your questions/comments...

First, a few notes about the layout...

1. ...The windows are 12" transoms 6 feet off the floor...
How does this fit into your 52" layout height? I'm planning on armpit height for my layout.

3. ...and is reachable across a removable bridge...
With an armpit height of 60" (5 feet), I don't anticipate having to lift out the bridge very often. It'll be a duck-under.

6. I've always wanted a yard, and I think this one fits the bill...
With an armpit height yard, I'm planning on a pull-out stage that will raise the floor by a foot in the yard area for serious fiddeling.

7. ...I'm a little curious how I'm going to hide the track in the area around B since the layout is so narrow right there.
Did you say what era, location, or prototype you're modeling. A suggestion would be easier with this data.

8. Letter J is in front of the double doors to the living room.
My wife has already put me on notice that the areas of the train room that are viewable through these doors must always be in a presentable state. I'm planning a nice facia and "museum" lighting here.

9. Layout height will be around 52 inches. I'm 6'3", so this works well for me. My workbench is located under the yard area.
You might want to make a full size mock up of this area to make sure you can reach these tracks without climbing on top of the workbench.

10. I'm going to eventually go to DCC...
Easy answer. Wire DCC now. Analog is sooo nineties!

11. Switch control will be manual, but I haven't decided on a final solution.
I'm wrestling with the same dilema. I haven't decided on choke cables or ground throws, thow I'm leaning toward the choke cables.

[ 07 July 2001: Message edited by: ten87 ]

 

Looks pretty good...

About the only thing I would suggest is putting in a passing siding, somewhere around "A" to "K" on your drawing. You would need to move the tunnel opening to the end of the siding, somewhere around "A". This will add the ability to run more than one train at a time.

One other thing... the turnout leading to the branchline looks to be hidden. This is not usually a good idea. How about extending it to join the mainline somewhere to the right of "K" on your plan? Another idea is to connect the branchline off the siding at "B", or for somethign really different, off the end of the siding in the yard.

Have fun with it.

 

I haven't been able to find the plan. Can you post a link to it?

 

All right, some answers...

First, the original diagram can be found at http://photos.yahoo.com/poozinsc2000. It is in the Layout Album and is a jpg file.

Other answers:

Haven't given window height and layout height much thought. Good question. One of those "assumptions" that bites you down the road.

Turnout control -- There is a product from Semaphore Locomotive Works called The Positive One. It looks promising. I plan on ordering one and playing with it a bit. It's a bit pricy, but when you add in the cost of labor, wiring and aggravation, it is essentially a wash.

The era I plan on modelling is the mid 50's. I really like early diesels (love those RS-3's and Baldwin Sharks) and this also allows me to run some steam. It will be an Appalachian layout and be using Pennsy power. How "Pennsy" it will be is undecided at this point.

Good point on the hidden switch for the branch. I've kicked this one around a bit. If anything, I'll probably move it close to C.

One question for consideration -- there really is no staging. I'm unsure how to drop the track enough in this short of a run to place a staging yard below track level. I don't want to use a helix. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Finally, I need to give credit where credit is due -- I designed this using XTRKCAD from Sillub Technologies (www.sillub.com). Up until January, I was using a 486/66 PC and this package ran easily on it. It fits on a 3 1/4 inch floppy and is VERY easy to learn. Doesn't have all of the bells and whistles, but did the trick.

Thanks for your feedback. Feel free to add any more comments.

Chris

 

When I hit on your link the connection doesn't go through, I think this is the problem Rob was having as well. I have hit on both links provided.

 

I'm seeing a Yahoo! error message:

The album or photo you are seeking does not exist.

 

I have it now (email) and I will print out givens and druthers and look at it with the track plan, and respond... thanks Colonel.

[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: rsn48 ]

 

I'm not sure what caused the problem. I copied Yahoo's provided address direct. Oh, well. I appreciate you guys sticking with it, however. I think the site might actually be

http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/poozinsc2000

This link appears to take me directly to the albums page where you'll see the layout album.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

That link worked. I printed out your track plan from that link.

 

Ditto - I can see it now. Looks pretty good at first glance. You have left room to expand at H. I am worried that a switcher working the classification yard may conflict with B - if you can fit a yard lead seperate from the main you can work the yard whilst a train can pass through.

more later...

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by poozinsc:

H is directly in front of the exterior door.
<snip>
This is John Armstrong's small division yard from his Realistic Operation book. I laid it out and flipped it.
<snip>
10. I'm going to eventually go to DCC. The debate currently keeping me awake at night is whether to wire for pure DCC initially and limiting operation, or pay the price in time and money and wire for traditional cab control.
<hr></blockquote>

Chris,

I didn't realize there was a door at H. I understand now.

Ya can't argue with the yard design - it is sound and designed by a master, however it is lacking a yard lead. For smaller less trafficed lines (as per Armstrong's design) this is OK but if you want a train running while you are working the yard it's a big advantage to have a yard lead separate from the main - I would consider adding it.

Go DCC straight away. You will spend so much on DBDT switches and panel wiring and everything - if you plan to go DCC do it sooner rather than later.

 

Can you suggest how I would add a yard lead to the yard? Do I essentially add a line parallel to the mainline or extend a yard track?

Chris

 

You already have one! I was looking at the plan and figured the track closest to the main near the roundhouse would work. To make it easy to explain this I pulled out my copy of the Armstrong book to get the names he used for the tracks. Well wouldn't ya know it, he labled the track "Switch Lead"!

The only problem is that in your plan it's too short. You need a lead that is as long as your longest yard track. To do this you will have to wrap it around the roundhouse on the inside of the curve. This will work fine, just watch your minimum radius!

 

Okay I have had a chance to look at the plans and have a few ideas.

First, your isle space of 2 feet is tight. To me it looks like you could narrow the waist at K a bit more and draw out the peninsula more and angle it a a bit more towards the door. This would open up your ailse ways. Right now you may anticipate being a lone wolf (don't know) but as you meet people, don't be surprised if in the long haul you end up with an informal "ops" group.

Second, at H (across the door) I would widen this substantially and have the track connect to your branch line at (i). I would make it about four tracks wide if you can, so that you can use this area for staging.

Thirdly, I don't see any passing track. As a lone wolf, this may not seem important, but if you ever get a computer to help run your layout, or get an small "ops" group going, you will wish you had passing track. There are a number of locations where you could put your passing track.

The switching area at B might work better as a yard servicing an industry there, rather than as a "classification" yard, or whatever; this is quite prototypical of many small industries.

Your hidden track will be problematic. Most people regret having a long hidden track area. If by moving your peninsula, you might be able to widen the B area a tad. I might have lots of buildings with the track behind - the hidden track - being visible, but just occassionally between buildings. This way if you have a derailment you won't have to do a contortionist act, or get out your fishing pole.

Also, think under your deck for staging.

Cheers

 

Good looking layout
Recommend you go to DCC immediately. Much easier operations without all the (lbock) switches.
Since I'm only 5'4", you should consider a lower layout for visiting operators (or provide step up) ex, for younger or altitude challenged persons.
The lead track for the yard is highly recommended from here as well. If you run the lead parallel to the main track and curve it around the turntable, it would impact the scenery the least. The track from the throat of the yard (Y)should be a bit longer than the stub tracks (F). Good luck.

 

To all:

I appreciate the feedback. I've drawn up a new version with the lead wrapped around the roundhouse. I like the way it looks. The new version of the design software lets you run trains, so I played around with it and it works great.

The comments concerning hidden trackage have triggered some thought. I plan to revisit that.

The aisle width is awfully narrow. I think this was one of those "wishful" features where you know in the back of your mind it is too narrow, but you wish it will work for you. I got the tape measure out and remeasured the door at H and the penninsula configuration to see if I can squeeze a few more inches out. Will 2 1/2 feet be enough? I don't know how doable 3 feet will be.

Going directly to DCC is the runaway winner. It will sure make my life easier. Now, just have to find a way to finance that.

If you have anymore comments, please feel free to share them. I was reluctant to put the plans out at first, but have been more than pleased with the all of the feedback.

I plan to start in January and will post pictures as progress is made.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

If you can keep your eyes open for an MRC deal, you might want to snap one up. Initially you will be quite happy with it and as long as you purchase good (many functioned) decoders, even if MRC can't address them all, you will be able to use your engines with an upgraded system latter on. Since Atlas has hit the market, many people are dumping their MRC's, but when you start, you will be happy with it, just make sure to get a hand held throttle with it, so that two people can use it. Don't be impressed with the fact that you can run three trains from their unit. Two people would go nuts using one power pack (command station), but if you can get a hand held, you will have lots of fun. Don't worry that you won't have bragging rights around the cooler about your DCC system, start slowly, know what you are doing, then upgrade latter, when there is more money available.

Start looking now on ebay to get the feeling of prices, then when you know you have seen a "steal" grab it.