I havent read all the posts yet, but thought I would put in my 4.5 cents (inflation). I have had several Key's and a few Hallmarks, and here are my take. If I wanted to have a brass for collector type of reasons, I absolutly LOVE the key offerings, and IMHO the detail and craftmanship is 2nd to none. Beutifull steamers. The ones that I had did run pretty good, and looked very impressive on a layout. But that said, they still did not run as well as many of the later releases for N scale like Atlas, and especially Kato, and even not as well as some of my Life-Likes. Also like someone mentioned, the detail in many of the late released locomotives in the plastic shells with brass details are pretty close to the detail of some of the brass craftmen. Looking very close, not quite up to the Key standards, but for everyday viewing on a layout, pretty darn good. The cost of a decent Key being around $800 or more, and a high end plastic Kato, or Atlas less than a quarter that cost, well, do the math for a runner. Again, we are talking runners, NOT display or investment queens. As far as hallmark, I have found their running gear is very substandard, and most their quality is concentrated on the esthetics of the locomotive, and not the proformace of it. That may not be as true with the newer ones, but the ones I have had in the past, they are definitly not able to compete in the proformace arena as most of the mass produced manufactures. But, Hallmark does make a pretty locomotive to look at. I have several Hallmark locomotives that I swapped out the chassis to a better running running gear. However, that voids any "collector" value if you are interested in that part of it. Again, this may not be that valid anylonger, because the Keys, and the Hallmarks I have had are earlier releases. And this also for the most part is their Steamers. In Key and Hallmark I generally only messed with Steam, with the exception of a couple GP7s.
Concerning performance of brass diesels I agree with most said here. Although I had a surprise recently: back in the early 1990s I bought a Sunset Trainmaster in Pennsylvania black, complete with Trainphone antenna. The engine is "Made in Japan" and must have sitting on the shelves of the dealer for a long time. Now I ran it again, and it is running quite well, no current pickup problems and pulling better than the new stuff. And it has kind of a sound system, e.g. the sound of all brass gears (although properly lubricated).
Kill for one You would think with an Allegheny in N scale going for almost twice the retail price when discontinued that a manufacturer would take note(Take note manufacturers!!)
I'll agree with RK, the last 2-3 I have seen go on E-bay went for $1400+. Enough money that I had to think twice about letting mine go. That money could get rid of a few credit card debts.
Key made 3 different versions of the Allegheny to match the 3 variants of the prototype, so you actually need 3x~$1500 to get the full "Allegheny" experience! Dave
The Allegheny really ought to be on someone's production list; it's one of the most famous steam locos ever. Maybe folks like Walthers, Athearn, etc. are scared off by the fact that only the C&O and Virginian had any. Another steamer that was available in brass (I think from Key?) but missing from the N scale lineup these days is the 2-10-4. And this one surely would be popular since the C&O (T-1), Pennsy (J-1) and Santa Fe all had them along with several other roads. Hey, Walthers - you've done the 2-8-4; how about an upgraded mechanism with 2 additional drivers and some plastic shell variations for the C&O, Pennsy and Santa Fe versions of this loco??? Have QSI engineer one of those superb sound systems like in the Y3 and I'll bet you'd sell a more than a few of 'em. John C.
Given that the Bigboy was owned by only one road tells me that is no excuse for not making the Allegheny. We had a C&O chat last night in my All Things C&O group and the Allegheny was the hot topic of discussion.
C&O and PRR were versions of the same design; Santa Fe's wasn't. Their main class of 2-10-4 had 74" drivers, unlike any other road's.
68 C&O+VGN Alleghenys were built against UP 25 Big Boys, so even at that, Athearn or someone else should make a model of it.
OK. But if a manufacturer worked out the mechanism, how hard would it be to make a set of drivers 1/32" bigger (5" difference between the 69" drivers on the C&O vs. the SF = an actual 1/32" in N scale, or .03125"). And even if they didn't make the drivers 1/32" bigger, would that keep someone from buying the model if they made the shell and tender road-specific in details? John C.
I agree that someone should make it. I'd certainly buy one (or two) and I don't model the C&O. But from the standpoint of a manufacturer, anything UP is a pretty safe sales bet (as is anything Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Pennsy, or NYC). The C&O would be "less safe," just because fewer people model the C&O, and fewer "normal" people are as familiar with the Allegheny as the Big Boy. I understand that the Allegheny at the Henry Ford museum is in perfect shape, essentially having been stored serviceable indoors. What I wouldn't give to see that thing in steam again . . . John C.
What about using the Athearn Challenger for the drivers? And you could use the bachmann northern four axle tender truck for the one Allegheny tender truck. (Ive been giving this some thought*S*). In my mind the obvious company to do an Allegheny in N scale is Rivarossi. They recently did one in HO. Just like Athearn they could take the prints and shrink them to N. I actually sent them an email a few days ago about this. And I made T1 from the Concor 2-10-2 a few years ago before I got a brass one.The Challenger has 69" drivers and the Allegheny 67" drivers. Close enough for me.Here is my custom made Texas.
Under Steam Again I have seen the one you mentioned. It is my understanding that it actually went into the museum under its own power.
Before getting my hands on my H-8. I already had plans on what it would take to make one from parts. The Athearn Challenger would not work. You need two rear engines from a Challenger to make an H-8 and the Athearn engines are not interchangable, they have different pivot and worm assemblies. The Rivarossi loco does allow this. For the pilot truck, a Berkshire pilot. For the trailing truck, a kit bash of two Berkshire trailers. For the tender, start with a big ASTF Northern tender and remove the parts that don't look C&O. Not perfect but it would look like it when done. Why is it I am a B&O guy but I have more accurate C&O loco's in my roster.......
Skip, its time to face reality. Deep down you are a C&O guy. Dont feel bad, just admit it and take that burden off your shoulders. *S*
Comparing parts Comparing Challenger drivers with Allegheny drivers. Size is really close but different driver types and other stuff. Comparing Allegheny and Bachmann 2-6-6-2 mallet drivers. Sizes very different Comparing Bachamnn northern four axle tender truck with Allegheny four axle tender truck. Pretty close.
