Kato UP 4-8-4 844

rrunty Jun 12, 2014

  1. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Yup, but a two tone gray FEF-3, with the Worthington SA feedwater heater in front of the double stack would only be the 8444/844 during excursion service up to 1999.

    Nice pic of the HO scale FEF-2...with single stack and no Worthington SA feedwater heater yet...which is correct for the TT gray time period all FEF's were painted gray (1946 through about 1954).

    This Kato FEF-3 is a quandary. The engine (not the tender) is configured correctly for the 8444/844 up until 1999...BUT, it was painted TT gray for over ten years prior to that date. The tender however, is correct for the post 2005 shopping because of the modern safety and anti-spill stuff on the oil bunker. The engine and tender are not correct either in paint or configuration for pulling an excursion train with the newly restored water tenders. Adding another generator up top and a firecracker antenna centered near the rear of the cab would correct that. Adding MU equipment and some water level hardware to the rear of the tender would add even more correct modern details.

    For this model to be perfect for 50's steam service, the oil bunker is going to have to be rebuilt to the much simpler oil filler hatch/vent arrangement before the EPA declared that UP had to install all that safety and anti-spill stuff up top on both the 844 and the 3985.

    It is obviously "wrong" for the transition era 1946 through 1954 TT gray service because of the Worthington SA feedwater heater which was put on in the 844's 1954 shopping when the engine was also repainted shiny black. When it was TT gray, it had no SA feedwater heater.

    Luckily for me, I've got a brass Key 844 in TT gray without the Worthington feedwater heater as well as some brass FEF-2's, also without the SA heaters.

    Gotta remember too that the ten FEF-3's (835 thru 844) were only coal fired for two years (1944 to 1946) when all FEF's were converted to oil and painted TT gray, so having a coal bunker for this engine wouldn't be historically correct.

    Cheerio!
    Bob Gilmore
     
  2. arbomambo

    arbomambo TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Bob,
    I have no issue with correcting the tender; I much prefer that to correcting the locomotive itself. Again, I want to model 1957, so, in addition to correcting the details, I'll want to research the correct paint on these for my 1957 modelled year-i.e. I haven't seen too many period pics of FEFs with white rims and running boards.
    Bruce
     
  3. OMG!Trains

    OMG!Trains TrainBoard Member

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    Military version?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    The recoil alone would push the whole train at least 5 miles BACKWARDS down the tracks !! R O F L M A O !!
     
  5. Carl Sowell

    Carl Sowell TrainBoard Supporter

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    Must be a KOBO Shops version.
     
  6. santafe

    santafe TrainBoard Member

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    look better with a 4 8 4 santa fe northern shell on it
     
  7. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    The Kato paint job so far is definitely an excursion service paint job. By 1957, all FEF's were pretty unkempt, pulling freight, in helper service and pulling fast MOW trains, with a rare helper call to a diesel powered passenger train.

    All of mine are going to get the white stripes and tires airbrushed black very quickly and I'll renumber 'em too. I hope Kato paints the lettering in aluminum rather than white, with is a common mistake.

    I'm hoping the oil bunker is removable. When looking at the video frame by frame, I see small mounting tabs inside the tender shell under the oil bunker. That would make retro-fitting a correct oil bunker top much easier.

    We'll see...and soon too!

    Cheerio!
    Bob Gilmore
     
  8. Ghengis Kong

    Ghengis Kong TrainBoard Member

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    What feedwater heater was used from '46-'54?
     
  9. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    The Worthington SA was originally preferred on all FEF's, but because of the front end equipment inside the smokeboxes on coal-fired FEF's (all of 'em until 1946), U.P. went with the Sellers exhaust steam injector on the fireman's side with a separate Nathan non-lifting injector installed on the engineer's side as original equipment.

    It was the intent of U.P. to convert all FEF's to the Worthington SA after they were converted to oil and more space was made available inside the smokeboxes...even at that, the smokeboxes had to be lengthened between 12" and 18" (the exact measurement is evidently hard to come by), but because of the demise of steam, not all FEF's ended up with the Worthington SA, particularly the FEF-1's.

    To complicate matters even more, U.P. was always modifying and testing equipment to improve reliability, serviceability and cut operating costs, so in addition to both the Sellers and Worthington systems, the Elesco exhaust steam type feedwater system was also tested, but rejected because the Sellers system was cheaper and proved to require less maintenance.

    The Worthington SA feedwater heater system was more intrusive than either the Sellers or Elesco systems (U.P. was always concerned about the design/appearance of their steam power) but it was found that "getting water" was much easier with the Worthington system than with any other design...so U.P. decided to convert the whole class to the Worthington SA system.

    All ten FEF-3's were converted before they were retired, but at different times as it was a major modification and occurred during the major shopping on these engines when they were also re-painted from TT gray to shiny black sometime between 1953 and 1955.

    I can't find any information as to when the very first Worthington SA was installed or on what engine, but logic tells me that it probably happened while that engine was still in TT gray. There may have been other engines also converted prior to being re-painted shiny black (I've never seen a photo of one), but not the 844. I've got a photo of her in Ogden in TT gray livery in 1953 and she's still sporting the Sellers system.

    Hope this answers yer question.

    Cheerio!
    Bob Gilmore
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2014
  10. Matt Bradley

    Matt Bradley TrainBoard Member

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    WT-JimAdams1.jpg

    I really like how the flag is raised up off the tender. Looks good.

    WT-JimAdams2.jpg

    WT-JoeJordan.jpg

    On the power car, does it appear to have the windows covered?

    ET-PowerCar2.jpg
     
  11. Ghengis Kong

    Ghengis Kong TrainBoard Member

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    Yes sir! Shouldn't be too hard to modify to 1946 specs.
     
  12. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    Depends on what you mean by "hard". To modify this model to 1946 specs, you're gonna have to file off the square Worthington SA box up in front of the double stack, remove the pump from the fireman's side with all of its associated piping, and shorten the smokebox approximately 1 scale foot.

    Then, you're gonna have to totally re-plumb the piping on the fireman's side, both under the running board and under the cab...then over to the other side and remove any extraneous piping and hardware, then install the Nathan non-lifting injector and the proper piping for that.

    Something that would really scream "!946" would be to remove the smoke lifters, as a lot of FEF's weren't yet equipped with 'em.

    Then, you should re-do the oil bunker top with the much simpler filler cap and vent of that age.

    Most of the FEF's also had holdovers from their coal-fired days, particularly the "vanes" or "wings" two on the turret in front of the cab, two on the cab (front and rear) and one one the cab hatch. which were added to keep coal ashes out of the cab. These got removed when the FEF's were repainted shiny black, with the exception that some retained the vane on the back edge of the cab hatch until they were retired.

    As an added job, the whole engine should be repainted in two-tone gray since ALL FEF's got painted what the road called "gray and white" in 1946 along with their conversion to oil.

    If you want a coal fired FEF-3, that adds a whole additional chapter of complexity in addition to the mods (minus TT gray paint) including fabricating ash pans and removing the structure at the front of the tank that replaced the coal bunker doors...and adding the doors...and of course, fabricating a coal bunker. However, the engine would be black, and maybe with no smoke lifters up front (depends on the number), and with the ash deflecting vanes on the turret directly in front of the cab, two on the cab and on the trailing edge of the cab hatch.

    So...to backdate this engine accurately, it'd be fairly difficult, but not overly so. From the photos and video I'd say that it's an excellent starting point.

    Cheerio!
    Bob Gilmore
     
  13. rrunty

    rrunty TrainBoard Supporter

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    After being somewhat questioned back in June for starting this thread, I am a little hesitant to post this, but lookee what was at the "bogus" hobby shop today. Sorry for the crappy cell shots, plus it was in a case, but it is incredible. I have absolutely no justification or need for one, but man I want it. I don't think I've ever seen a more beautiful n scale steamer. I believe as of this time, it's the only one outside of Kato captivity in the US.

    844.jpg 844 1.jpg

    Bob
     
  14. Ryan Wilkerson

    Ryan Wilkerson TrainBoard Member

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    Bob, thanks for posting. Looking GREAT!
     
  15. kmcsjr

    kmcsjr TrainBoard Member

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    As fuzzy as that is..... how do we know it isn't the con cor model, bigfoot bought?
     
  16. Spookshow

    Spookshow TrainBoard Member

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    Wowie, I can already tell that my Athearn Challenger is really going to have to fight for track time in front of my excursion train once I get my hands one of those :)

    Cheers,
    -Mark
     
  17. rrunty

    rrunty TrainBoard Supporter

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    Forgot to say the proprieter said he was told by the rep at the Kato dinner it will definitely be here before Christmas. Let's hope so.

    Bob
     
  18. arbomambo

    arbomambo TrainBoard Member

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    that one may be the pre-production sample that was featured in the dis-assembly video-would that make sense?
    Bruce
     
  19. Ryan Wilkerson

    Ryan Wilkerson TrainBoard Member

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    I really hope so...for my son's sake. He's been asking for 844 for 3 years....finally this Christmas, it could happen!
     
  20. Xmtrman

    Xmtrman TrainBoard Member

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    Hey, Mark,

    Couple up your pre-rebuild water bottles and go DOUBLEHEADER!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K2uyA9h8b4
     

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